Anyone raised Bone Density with Steroids/HGH/SARMs?

[hungryalways]

Has anyone here (preferably over the age of 30) raised their bone mineral density (BMD) with steroids and/or other compounds? I'm looking for people that have DEXA scans showing an increase in bone density before and after steroid use.

There is some (often limited) evidence that the following compounds might be useful in doing so:

- Testosterone
- HGH
- Deca/NPP
- Anavar
- Ostarine
- LGD-4033
- Tadalafil

I'm approaching 40 and discovered terrible bone density after suffering a hip fracture. I'm otherwise relatively strong and healthy but have recently started TRT and a few other compounds. Hoping to hear some success stories, even if raising bone density wasn't your main objective.

Thanks

 

[RiceNKimchi]

Just cycle test + other stuff from your list then pct with nolva = profit? Lol

Effect of Tamoxifen on the Risk of Osteoporosis and Osteoporotic Fracture in Younger Breast Cancer Survivors: A Nationwide Study

Background: Although international guidelines recommend bone screening for premenopausal breast cancer patients taking adjuvant tamoxifen, the effects of tamoxifen on osteoporosis and related risks remain controversial. The objective of this study was ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Avarice911]

Just cycle test + other stuff from your list then pct with nolva = profit? Lol

Effect of Tamoxifen on the Risk of Osteoporosis and Osteoporotic Fracture in Younger Breast Cancer Survivors: A Nationwide Study

Background: Although international guidelines recommend bone screening for premenopausal breast cancer patients taking adjuvant tamoxifen, the effects of tamoxifen on osteoporosis and related risks remain controversial. The objective of this study was ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

He already started TRT. Don’t think he wants to pct back to low test lol

 

[Gigantic]

Here are some studies that I've been researching to increase my bone density due to some medical conditions.

Testosterone
* Testosterone and Bone Health in Men: A Narrative Review

* Long-Term Effect of Testosterone Therapy on Bone Mineral Density in Hypogonadal Men

* Serum testosterone does not affect bone mineral density in postmenopausal women (no effect in post-menopausal women)

Human Growth Hormone
* Two Years of Treatment with Recombinant Human Growth Hormone Increases Bone Mineral Density in Men with Idiopathic Osteoporosis

* Benefits of growth hormone treatment on bone metabolism, bone density and bone strength in growth hormone deficiency and osteoporosis - PubMed

* Effects of growth hormone therapy on bone density and fracture risk in age-related osteoporosis in the absence of growth hormone deficiency: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PubMed

Nandrolone (Deca) (NPP will offer the same/better benefits)

* Nandrolone decanoate: Pharmacological properties and therapeutic use in osteoporosis - Clinical Rheumatology

* The effect of nandrolone decanoate on bone mineral density, muscle mass, and hemoglobin levels in elderly women with osteoporosis: a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial - PubMed

* The Effect of Nandrolone Decanoate on Bone Mineral Density, Muscle Mass, and Hemoglobin Levels in Elderly Women With Osteoporosis: A Double-Blind, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial

Oxandrolone (Anavar)
* The Effect of Oxandrolone Treatment on Human Osteoblastic Cells

* Oxandrolone - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

* Anabolic Steroids Improve Bone Mineral Density and Quality of Life in Patients with Osteoporotic Fractures Around the Hip | Mukhopadhyay | International Journal of Orthopaedics

Ostarine
* The Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Ostarine Improves Bone Healing in Ovariectomized Rats - PubMed

* Effect of Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Enobosarm on Bone Healing in a Rat Model for Aged Male Osteoporosis - Calcified Tissue International

LGD-4033
* The Safety, Pharmacokinetics, and Effects of LGD-4033, a Novel Nonsteroidal Oral, Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator, in Healthy Young Men

* Therapies for Musculoskeletal Disease: Can we Treat Two Birds with One Stone?

Taladafil
* Repurposing erectile dysfunction drugs tadalafil and vardenafil to increase bone mass

In short:

For men, Testosterone + any of these will help increase your Bone Mineral Density (BMD). Most of the bone density seems to be centered around lean muscle mass.

I don't think you need to go further than TRT + an extra compound on the list, unless you're competing. As always, seek help from a doctor if your bone density is very low. Mine is 92nd percentile, but used to be 99th. I'm working on fixing that, because it's slowly devolving.

You will also need to consider diet, and get adequate calcium, protein and potentially collagen.

 

[hungryalways]

Here are some studies that I've been researching to increase my bone density due to some medical conditions.

Testosterone
* Testosterone and Bone Health in Men: A Narrative Review

* Long-Term Effect of Testosterone Therapy on Bone Mineral Density in Hypogonadal Men

* Serum testosterone does not affect bone mineral density in postmenopausal women (no effect in post-menopausal women)

Human Growth Hormone
* Two Years of Treatment with Recombinant Human Growth Hormone Increases Bone Mineral Density in Men with Idiopathic Osteoporosis

* Benefits of growth hormone treatment on bone metabolism, bone density and bone strength in growth hormone deficiency and osteoporosis - PubMed

* Effects of growth hormone therapy on bone density and fracture risk in age-related osteoporosis in the absence of growth hormone deficiency: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PubMed

Nandrolone (Deca) (NPP will offer the same/better benefits)

* Nandrolone decanoate: Pharmacological properties and therapeutic use in osteoporosis - Clinical Rheumatology

* The effect of nandrolone decanoate on bone mineral density, muscle mass, and hemoglobin levels in elderly women with osteoporosis: a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial - PubMed

* The Effect of Nandrolone Decanoate on Bone Mineral Density, Muscle Mass, and Hemoglobin Levels in Elderly Women With Osteoporosis: A Double-Blind, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial

Oxandrolone (Anavar)
* The Effect of Oxandrolone Treatment on Human Osteoblastic Cells

* Oxandrolone - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

* Anabolic Steroids Improve Bone Mineral Density and Quality of Life in Patients with Osteoporotic Fractures Around the Hip | Mukhopadhyay | International Journal of Orthopaedics

Ostarine
* The Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Ostarine Improves Bone Healing in Ovariectomized Rats - PubMed

* Effect of Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Enobosarm on Bone Healing in a Rat Model for Aged Male Osteoporosis - Calcified Tissue International

LGD-4033
* The Safety, Pharmacokinetics, and Effects of LGD-4033, a Novel Nonsteroidal Oral, Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator, in Healthy Young Men

* Therapies for Musculoskeletal Disease: Can we Treat Two Birds with One Stone?

Taladafil
* Repurposing erectile dysfunction drugs tadalafil and vardenafil to increase bone mass

In short:

For men, Testosterone + any of these will help increase your Bone Mineral Density (BMD). Most of the bone density seems to be centered around lean muscle mass.

I don't think you need to go further than TRT + an extra compound on the list, unless you're competing. As always, seek help from a doctor if your bone density is very low. Mine is 92nd percentile, but used to be 99th. I'm working on fixing that, because it's slowly devolving.

You will also need to consider diet, and get adequate calcium, protein and potentially collagen.

Really appreciate you taking the time to post those studies. There are some there that I hadn't seen yet, so I will have a good read.

I envy your 92nd percentile BMD; I have a T-score of -2.3 in the femoral neck, which I believe puts me below the 1st percentile! It's so far idiopathic, and no cause has been found - I remain skeptical as I'm otherwise relatively fit at 6'2, 90kg, and around 15% body fat.

The weird thing is that my spine wasn't as bad and has improved in the last 2 years with supplementation and compound-focused resistance training, while my femoral necks have further deteriorated, despite an increase in the total hip.

I'm currently on:
- 1000IU of HCG/week
- 150mg of test cyp/week
- 2 IU of HGH per day

Ran a quick 4-week period of 20mg/day of Anavar but had to stop to ensure normal bloods for my TRT doc.

Going forward, and between TRT blood tests, I will likely bump the test, add 50-100mg/week of NPP/Deca and then run short cycles of the oral stuff where possible. Will also try to add tadalafil, although I'm prone to migraines, so will see if that's feasible.

My test was borderline pre-TRT (usually 300-450 total with normal free T due to low SHBG) but my E2 was right at the bottom of the range on the only test I took so I'm hoping the Test + increase in E2 will have some benefit but I guess only time will tell.

 

[lukiss96]

I think weight lifting and proper diet in general increases bone density right? So steroids basically amplify all of that. OP I think you almost stole the nickname from @AlwaysHungry lol, is it coincidence?

 

[exilol]

I dont have the actual results but I did Dexa scan over the course of 4 years once yearly and went from being in the top 88 percentile of my age group to top 99.5 Percentile between the first and last Dexa.. multiple blasts between these phases - Growth hormone use for a good 2 years , and even a number of contest preps with heavy AI use ... Androgens in general Will for sure increase your bone density and by quite a bit

 

[hungryalways]

I think weight lifting and proper diet in general increases bone density right? So steroids basically amplify all of that. OP I think you almost stole the nickname from @AlwaysHungry lol, is it coincidence?

Total coincidence! Apologies @AlwaysHungry!

Yes hoping the gear amplifies any bone gains, but so far it's only been heading down (in my femoral necks) despite best efforts, so I'm hoping it can turn things around.

 

[hungryalways]

I dont have the actual results but I did Dexa scan over the course of 4 years once yearly and went from being in the top 88 percentile of my age group to top 99.5 Percentile between the first and last Dexa.. multiple blasts between these phases - Growth hormone use for a good 2 years , and even a number of contest preps with heavy AI use ... Androgens in general Will for sure increase your bone density and by quite a bit

Great to hear man. How old were you at the time if you don't mind me asking? Assuming you were blasting and using HGH far above replacement doses if you were competing?

 

[exilol]

Ages 26 to age 30 - Hgh In the realm of 4-8 iu - With 6 being the average id say the last 2 years ... That said Even 3 ius PLUS trt , PLUS eating right PLUS Lifting AND MOST IMPORTANTLY not crushing estrogen - You SHOULD for sure get a significant increase in bone density - and well above the range of osteopenia in the hips - If not youre just really unlucky ( but highly improbable) and get yourself mentally ready for a hip replacement LOL .... youll be fine mate

 

[exilol]

Consider looking at BPC-157 and TB-500 a couple of 6 week blocks 3 x a year I do Believe they increase bone density as well But this is purely from the top of my head I may be mistaken ..

 

[hungryalways]

Consider looking at BPC-157 and TB-500 a couple of 6 week blocks 3 x a year I do Believe they increase bone density as well But this is purely from the top of my head I may be mistaken ..

Actually did a 6-week block of these for recovery from surgery to remove the massive screws they drilled through my hip. Will look into running them again for sure.

Fully expecting a hip replacement at this point, don't worry lol. Even the surgeon told me I'll be at much higher risk of needing one and that's without any heavy squats.

Not going to touch AIs at all. Would rather have a nice pair of tits and strong bones at this point.

 

[Gigantic]

I’ve been thinking, and with your bone density so low, maybe do some genetic testing to see if there’s brittle bone disease. You may have a weaker variant of it.

Here’s some information on how they treated this: Growth hormone treatment in osteogenesis imperfecta with quantitative defect of type I collagen synthesis - PubMed

> “We studied growth rate, bone density, and bone metabolism in patients affected by type I osteogenesis imperfecta (OI) with quantitative defect in type I collagen synthesis during treatment with human growth hormone (hGH), being aware of its collagen-stimulating synthesis activity in vitro.”

> “Every 3 months, serum insulin-like growth factor type I, osteocalcin, carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen, alkaline phosphatase, calcium, and phosphorus levels and urinary hydroxyproline and calcium levels were determined.”

> “Results: After 12 months, linear growth velocity in treated patients increased significantly in comparison with the pretreatment period”


Either way, you really need to be careful. You’re in osteoporosis territory.

 

[Type-IIx]

Really appreciate you taking the time to post those studies. There are some there that I hadn't seen yet, so I will have a good read.

I envy your 92nd percentile BMD; I have a T-score of -2.3 in the femoral neck, which I believe puts me below the 1st percentile! It's so far idiopathic, and no cause has been found - I remain skeptical as I'm otherwise relatively fit at 6'2, 90kg, and around 15% body fat.

The weird thing is that my spine wasn't as bad and has improved in the last 2 years with supplementation and compound-focused resistance training, while my femoral necks have further deteriorated, despite an increase in the total hip.

I'm currently on:
- 1000IU of HCG/week
- 150mg of test cyp/week
- 2 IU of HGH per day

Ran a quick 4-week period of 20mg/day of Anavar but had to stop to ensure normal bloods for my TRT doc.

Going forward, and between TRT blood tests, I will likely bump the test, add 50-100mg/week of NPP/Deca and then run short cycles of the oral stuff where possible. Will also try to add tadalafil, although I'm prone to migraines, so will see if that's feasible.

My test was borderline pre-TRT (usually 300-450 total with normal free T due to low SHBG) but my E2 was right at the bottom of the range on the only test I took so I'm hoping the Test + increase in E2 will have some benefit but I guess only time will tell.

RhGH does not straightforwardly increase femoral neck BMD & BMC; it actually reduces it at first, and only after 1 year of replacement, in growth hormone deficiency patients, does that tendency apparently reverse. This is because it stimulates bone turnover (formation & resorption) with net bone accrual on longer time-frames. Unfortunately, there is no clear dose/response due to the wide divergence of doses used. Trabecular (lumbar spine) bone has a different sensitivity versus cortical (femoral neck) bone to GH.

Estrogens are particularly important in enhancing bone function/metabolism in men; even more so than androgen. That means, basically, don't use so high a testosterone dose that you need an AI or SERM.

Oxandrolone (Anavar) shouldn't really cause suspicions for your TRT doctor. It's not testosterone, depending on the assay, there may be a degree of cross-reactivity, but it'd more likely just register as dyslipidemia if anything. The effects of oxandrolone on BMC/BMD become significant only after > 1 y continuous treatment (long-term administration likely necessary to enhance bone metabolism). There was also a synergy (1 + 1 > 2) in this effect modulated by the growth maturation phase in pediatric patients (i.e., implications for rhGH, aromatizing androgen).

 

[hungryalways]

I’ve been thinking, and with your bone density so low, maybe do some genetic testing to see if there’s brittle bone disease. You may have a weaker variant of it.

Here’s some information on how they treated this: Growth hormone treatment in osteogenesis imperfecta with quantitative defect of type I collagen synthesis - PubMed

> “We studied growth rate, bone density, and bone metabolism in patients affected by type I osteogenesis imperfecta (OI) with quantitative defect in type I collagen synthesis during treatment with human growth hormone (hGH), being aware of its collagen-stimulating synthesis activity in vitro.”

> “Every 3 months, serum insulin-like growth factor type I, osteocalcin, carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen, alkaline phosphatase, calcium, and phosphorus levels and urinary hydroxyproline and calcium levels were determined.”

> “Results: After 12 months, linear growth velocity in treated patients increased significantly in comparison with the pretreatment period”


Either way, you really need to be careful. You’re in osteoporosis territory.

Thanks for your input. I've had a 23andme and run my genetic data through the various online resources, but nothing has come up. I don't have any history of previous fractures, family history of osteoporotic fractures, or any other indications either. It has been somewhat of a mystery.

After seeing a Rheumatologist recently, her best theory was that I never reached peak bone mass as a child as I had an undetermined inflammatory illness for about a decade, which involved urticaria and painful edema in the hands and feet. It eventually went away, and my childhood was otherwise active (basketball, taekwondo, etc.).

She was supportive of my decision to start TRT and mentioned it can definitely help those with lower levels increase BMD, so I'm crossing my fingers and will likely get a DEXA early next year.

My total T was usually around 350 but with low SHBG, so my free T was ok, so unsure if I really previously fit the category of hypogonadal or not.

 

[hungryalways]

RhGH does not straightforwardly increase femoral neck BMD & BMC; it actually reduces it at first, and only after 1 year of replacement, in growth hormone deficiency patients, does that tendency apparently reverse. This is because it stimulates bone turnover (formation & resorption) with net bone accrual on longer time-frames. Unfortunately, there is no clear dose/response due to the wide divergence of doses used. Trabecular (lumbar spine) bone has a different sensitivity versus cortical (femoral neck) bone to GH.

Estrogens are particularly important in enhancing bone function/metabolism in men; even more so than androgen. That means, basically, don't use so high a testosterone dose that you need an AI or SERM.

Oxandrolone (Anavar) shouldn't really cause suspicions for your TRT doctor. It's not testosterone, depending on the assay, there may be a degree of cross-reactivity, but it'd more likely just register as dyslipidemia if anything. The effects of oxandrolone on BMC/BMD become significant only after > 1 y continuous treatment (long-term administration likely necessary to enhance bone metabolism). There was also a synergy (1 + 1 > 2) in this effect modulated by the growth maturation phase in pediatric patients (i.e., implications for rhGH, aromatizing androgen).

Interesting regarding the FN decreases. I have seen a few studies showing mixed results at the femoral neck with various compounds, and honestly, the ones which are most convincing are studies involving impact exercise, with high ground-reactive-force, so that's definitely going to be a priority for me once I'm certain I've recovered from recent hardware removal. Spinal BMD seems so much easier to influence, and mine has almost normalised now - but my FNs are where the issue mostly lies.

I have read the study on child burn victims, which seemed to show good tolerance of long-term Anavar usage but wasn't sure it would be advisable over an injectable like Deca (and obv Test) for the obvious lipid and possibly kidney issues. I ran 20mg/day for 4 weeks and didn't notice any negative sides but plan on checking how my lipids respond next time.

I am indeed worried that the doc will notice the lipid issues and know that I am up to other stuff, but I guess it's less of an issue soon as my testing switches to every 6-months.

 

[Gigantic]

Thanks for your input. I've had a 23andme and run my genetic data through the various online resources, but nothing has come up. I don't have any history of previous fractures, family history of osteoporotic fractures, or any other indications either. It has been somewhat of a mystery.

After seeing a Rheumatologist recently, her best theory was that I never reached peak bone mass as a child as I had an undetermined inflammatory illness for about a decade, which involved urticaria and painful edema in the hands and feet. It eventually went away, and my childhood was otherwise active (basketball, taekwondo, etc.).

She was supportive of my decision to start TRT and mentioned it can definitely help those with lower levels increase BMD, so I'm crossing my fingers and will likely get a DEXA early next year.

My total T was usually around 350 but with low SHBG, so my free T was ok, so unsure if I really previously fit the category of hypogonadal or not.

You should also take some collagen supplements. You can get them at Costco or Amazon, but make sure you visit labdoor.com to see if the quality is good.

23andme is not good enough for genetic testing, and it doesn’t show osteogenesis imperfecta. You can, however, potentially search your raw data for OI SNPs. Here are some:

* Osteogenesis imperfecta - SNPedia

On this page, you’ll see a lot of “rs#” values, such as rs387907358. You can individually copy and paste these SNP values into your raw data search. Don’t freak out if you have the SNPs; you may have a completely different genotype, e.g: A/A and not C/T, etc. You need to read the variant / genotype part after clicking the SNP in NIH.

Another issue could be Ehler Danlos in COL1A1 and COL1A2. You can search this in your raw data, but it may not be present because 23andme doesn’t read everything.

 

[hungryalways]

You should also take some collagen supplements. You can get them at Costco or Amazon, but make sure you visit labdoor.com to see if the quality is good.

23andme is not good enough for genetic testing, and it doesn’t show osteogenesis imperfecta. You can, however, potentially search your raw data for OI SNPs. Here are some:

* Osteogenesis imperfecta - SNPedia

On this page, you’ll see a lot of “rs#” values, such as rs387907358. You can individually copy and paste these SNP values into your raw data search. Don’t freak out if you have the SNPs; you may have a completely different genotype, e.g: A/A and not C/T, etc. You need to read the variant / genotype part after clicking the SNP in NIH.

Another issue could be Ehler Danlos in COL1A1 and COL1A2. You can search this in your raw data, but it may not be present because 23andme doesn’t read everything.

Thank you. I will research Osteogenesis imperfecta further.

I'm supplementing collagen along with a number of other supplements. It's hard to know when it's "too much," but currently taking:

Hydrolyzed Collagen, Vitamin D, Vitamin K2 MK-7, Calcium, Vitamin C, Probiotics, Fish Oil, Creatine, Boron, Choline, Folate, and Magnesium.

I guess I have some pretty expensive urine at this point, but most of the above are chosen based on some studies showing benefits to BMD.

 

[Mrgiuoco]

Has anyone here (preferably over the age of 30) raised their bone mineral density (BMD) with steroids and/or other compounds? I'm looking for people that have DEXA scans showing an increase in bone density before and after steroid use.

There is some (often limited) evidence that the following compounds might be useful in doing so:

- Testosterone
- HGH
- Deca/NPP
- Anavar
- Ostarine
- LGD-4033
- Tadalafil

I'm approaching 40 and discovered terrible bone density after suffering a hip fracture. I'm otherwise relatively strong and healthy but have recently started TRT and a few other compounds. Hoping to hear some success stories, even if raising bone density wasn't your main objective.

Thanks

I have been using hgh for the past 5 years and have had bone dencity scans. Hgh works well for me. Increased my bone density quite abit. Haven’t had a scan recently tho I’ll have to check but hgh really helped me

 

[hungryalways]

I have been using hgh for the past 5 years and have had bone dencity scans. Hgh works well for me. Increased my bone density quite abit. Haven’t had a scan recently tho I’ll have to check but hgh really helped me

Glad to hear man. How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Also what were your T-scores before and after?