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[Youngrobert1]

Derick with more plates more dates covered this topic. It’s true some people are hyper responsive due the enzymes and the way we metabolize homes. At 150 i usually test around 750 on total testosterone, I assumed my testosterone bottle was over dosed but could be that also

You should listen to the conversation with Scott McNally and dr. Scott Stevenson if you like that stuff. Scott Stevenson covers things a lot better than Derek. He can speak well but also has extensive training and coaching experience as well as rigorous academic background. He doesnt have a need for traffic, click bait or anything like that so you get his real genuine insight.
In the studies he was going through there was a 60% variance in how people metabolize esterified hormones

 

[Youngrobert1]

 

[Youngrobert1]

Theres my igf on optis 280s, 9 ius split into 4.5 twice a day. Couple months of this

 

[mtt]

Completely right. I only did 20iu out of curiosity of if it really makes that much of a difference taking that much more. Although it would be righteous to do the same protocol as the 10iu again to see if these higher doses are desensitizing me to the gh. Maybe I would score as good. Then I wonder if I would get a better igf1 response doing the same amount just spread out into smaller doses through out the day like maybe 3iu or something every two hours. I’m not sure how this works but it appears 20iu isn’t doing any justice looking at my score for igf1.

The Serum test isn't going to determine any sensitivity issues. That would be your IGF-1 levels. How you body responds to the HGH.

 

[138casanova]

Any feedback would be appreciated. My TSH level is within range, but my T3 is elevated or is low (still confused on that). I did another test on my T4, but I haven't gotten it back yet. I'm taking 3.3IU of optis Jins daily. Been on for few months. Could that T3 # be causing me lethargy? I'm exhausted pretty much all the time. I've read the entire internet about taking T4 when on GH and there's no definitive rule of thought. From those who say you should, they recommend 100mcg per 3IU of GH. What say you? Do you take T4 while on GH? Could that help my numbers, or is it not needed?

TIA

 

[mtt]

Any feedback would be appreciated. My TSH level is within range, but my T3 is elevated or is low (still confused on that). I did another test on my T4, but I haven't gotten it back yet. I'm taking 3.3IU of optis Jins daily. Been on for few months. Could that T3 # be causing me lethargy? I'm exhausted pretty much all the time. I've read the entire internet about taking T4 when on GH and there's no definitive rule of thought. From those who say you should, they recommend 100mcg per 3IU of GH. What say you? Do you take T4 while on GH? Could that help my numbers, or is it not needed?

TIA

According to your lab report the reference range, the normal range, for t3 is 2.3 - 4.2. Yours is 5.3 H. 5.3 is greater than 4.2, the upper limit for this test. The "H" indicates high, just like your total and free test. There would be an "L" next to a reading stands for "Low" if it is below the reference range.

BTW, whose Test are you using and how much are you taking?

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Any feedback would be appreciated. My TSH level is within range, but my T3 is elevated or is low (still confused on that). I did another test on my T4, but I haven't gotten it back yet. I'm taking 3.3IU of optis Jins daily. Been on for few months. Could that T3 # be causing me lethargy? I'm exhausted pretty much all the time. I've read the entire internet about taking T4 when on GH and there's no definitive rule of thought. From those who say you should, they recommend 100mcg per 3IU of GH. What say you? Do you take T4 while on GH? Could that help my numbers, or is it not needed?

TIA

Your T3 levels are elevated because you are on growth and have a high igf1 level. Your T4 levels will be low unless you are taking T4. The objective is to keep NORMAL NOT HIGH T4 levels while running growth and the dose will depend on your own body… NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU ACCURATE DOSING OF T4 for your body. That will take multiple bloodwork

the main reason you need T4 while you are on growth. You want to get the full effect while on growth and take T4 to keep your T3 levels elevated…. Reason why is while on growth your liver converts t4 to T3 at a very high rate. T3 is a very busy hormone in your body controlling everything from metabolism to heart rate sex drive and a whole bunch of other things.

This is why t3 pills are not needed while on growth if you have a properly working thyroid. Your thyroid will be working in overtime trying to keep up with the T4 production your body is needing because it is sensing the high conversion rate that’s going on in the body.

So taking T4 will help your thyroid out and cause less stress. As your thyroid creates very little T3. Most of your T3 is made through the conversion of T4 to T3 in your liver and some in your kidneys. Another reason you need to take supplements for those while on growth.

also @mands suggested I stop taking T4 while I was running my hgh weekly tests a while back to see if my T4 level leveled out to normal again…. It did but after 3 weeks dropped low again. So your body of working correctly will try its hardest to level out your hormones but in my body it did drop low again. So I’m concluding that I always run T4 while on growth and my dose changes depending on how many iu’s of growth I am doing.

your body is a machine and if you have EVERY organ working in range that need to be in range minimal gear is needed to achieve a great result with less stress on the human body.

 

[B Ware]

@138casanova its normal. Your t4 labs will come back low. Here are some old labs of mine. MightyMouse nailed it with his explanation.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

So 2 days completely off growth and seem some water weight is coming off. Just need more cardio in my life and a better diet. Hopefully I can stick to a diet better ..... fuck it might up the test to 350mg a week!!! Fuck around find out

 

[138casanova]

According to your lab report the reference range, the normal range, for t3 is 2.3 - 4.2. Yours is 5.3 H. 5.3 is greater than 4.2, the upper limit for this test. The "H" indicates high, just like your total and free test. There would be an "L" next to a reading stands for "Low" if it is below the reference range.

BTW, whose Test are you using and how much are you taking?

Yeah, I know it's high on the test, but when reading about TSH, T4 and T3, it's all a little confusing to me for some reason as it pertains to hypo and hyper thyroidism. My wellness doc who prescribes my T, Anavar, etc. tests me twice a year now. It used to be once a quarter, but I have gone to twice a year.

I'm taking 3.3IU daily (6 days a week) of optis Jin.

 

[138casanova]

Your T3 levels are elevated because you are on growth and have a high igf1 level. Your T4 levels will be low unless you are taking T4. The objective is to keep NORMAL NOT HIGH T4 levels while running growth and the dose will depend on your own body… NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU ACCURATE DOSING OF T4 for your body. That will take multiple bloodwork

the main reason you need T4 while you are on growth. You want to get the full effect while on growth and take T4 to keep your T3 levels elevated…. Reason why is while on growth your liver converts t4 to T3 at a very high rate. T3 is a very busy hormone in your body controlling everything from metabolism to heart rate sex drive and a whole bunch of other things.

This is why t3 pills are not needed while on growth if you have a properly working thyroid. Your thyroid will be working in overtime trying to keep up with the T4 production your body is needing because it is sensing the high conversion rate that’s going on in the body.

So taking T4 will help your thyroid out and cause less stress. As your thyroid creates very little T3. Most of your T3 is made through the conversion of T4 to T3 in your liver and some in your kidneys. Another reason you need to take supplements for those while on growth.

also @mands suggested I stop taking T4 while I was running my hgh weekly tests a while back to see if my T4 level leveled out to normal again…. It did but after 3 weeks dropped low again. So your body of working correctly will try its hardest to level out your hormones but in my body it did drop low again. So I’m concluding that I always run T4 while on growth and my dose changes depending on how many iu’s of growth I am doing.

your body is a machine and if you have EVERY organ working in range that need to be in range minimal gear is needed to achieve a great result with less stress on the human body.

@Mighty-mouse thank you for the insightful reply! that helps a ton.

Couple of questions, and I know you're not a doctor:

1. What would be a conservative starting dosage of T4 with me taking 3.3IU Jintropin daily?
2. How long should I wait to get my thyroid panel again to see if I should titrate up?
3. Not planning on getting off of GH anytime soon, but when I do, can you just stop taking T4?
4. Are there any long-term bad side effects to the thyroid from taking T4 while on GH?

Sincerely appreciate your knowledge on this.

 

[RGL90]

So 2 days completely off growth and seem some water weight is coming off. Just need more cardio in my life and a better diet. Hopefully I can stick to a diet better ..... fuck it might up the test to 350mg a week!!! Fuck around find out

Damn wtf. You sir are the reason and inspiration I've decided to come off the sauce and rely on gh and diet alone . Thanks for all you do for this forum

 

[Mighty-mouse]

@Mighty-mouse thank you for the insightful reply! that helps a ton.

Couple of questions, and I know you're not a doctor:

1. What would be a conservative starting dosage of T4 with me taking 3.3IU Jintropin daily?
2. How long should I wait to get my thyroid panel again to see if I should titrate up?
3. Not planning on getting off of GH anytime soon, but when I do, can you just stop taking T4?
4. Are there any long-term bad side effects to the thyroid from taking T4 while on GH?

Sincerely appreciate your knowledge on this.

1. Do to my beliefs in meso’s harm reduction policy I can not give you a dosing without first seeing your t4 numbers. Soon as you get them post them up or message me then I can recommend something. But I just can’t blindly tell you a number... see reason 3 for further explanation

2. consistency is key.... so every morning on a empty stomach take your t4 for 2-3 weeks then pull bloods to see if adjustments are needed. - reason being on a empty stomach is we are talking micrograms not milligrams when dosing t4. So you want to make sure nothing is in the stomach that could potentially absorb the hormone you are consuming... another reason you should only buy t4 from actual pharmacy company or the likes. I know a thing or 2 and NO ugl will be able to produce an actuate micro dose of anything u less they spent 200k+ on a mixing system and press.

3. the thyroid gland is very resilient and strong as fuck. But, to cause less stress you want to keep your t4 levels in the normal range too much could shit your production off and cause issues when getting off. Not enough will cause you thyroid to work harder like it currently is. I have taken t4 for a year straight and 3 weeks later after stopping growth and t4 it was in the normal range.... your T3 level will take a little longer to stabilize.

4. as with any medication their are always risk. You don’t have any thyroid issues prior to running t4 but, you will be consuming t4 something your body is used to producing without the help of medication. So yes their is always going to be risk related. In my experience I have never had any issues with any of my systems not bouncing back besides my test levels.

if you are serious about it and can pull bloodwork once a month it’s an investment on tweaking your body to perform and build with the minimal gear needed.

I said it before I say it again... for the past several years 5-6... I haven’t went over 300mg knowingly on test. I cycle growth and if I need a pick me up I will pop some var or tbol. I did do a few weeks of sdrol but quit that shit 2 weeks ago due to the side effects it was causing.

o and I take provi 25mg and 5mg cialis daily when I’m back in the states. I make sure to take my liver and kidney vitamins and other for basic needs. I never overthink stuff and just keep it simple. I’m not the biggest fella there is but for the most part I’m healthy and at the end of the day that’s what matters cause I got kids.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Damn wtf. You sir are the reason and inspiration I've decided to come off the sauce and rely on gh and diet alone . Thanks for all you do for this forum

Thanks bro.... I just see so many people on these forums that talk about an absurd amount of gear and it just seems ridiculous to me and I don’t want new guys to think they need to do that much gear to achieve a decent look.

now I know some guys that take a couple grams of stuff weekly but they are also 5’7 - 5’8” 260-280 lb monsters. But for the most part 90% of the guys that say they take that usually look like they don’t.

I’ll say it again I’m not the biggest guy here or best looking stage ready guy here but for the amount of gear I’m taking and my training and diet I’m fucking happy today I weighed in at 212lb 5’4”.

so just maintain a clean eating habit be consistent for a while and adjust if needed after you know you have been doing everything as you should.

and remember it’s diet training then gear.

edit... just read what I said at first. I’m not calling you a new guy I’m saying in general new guys that are new to gear

 

[138casanova]

1. Do to my beliefs in meso’s harm reduction policy I can not give you a dosing without first seeing your t4 numbers. Soon as you get them post them up or message me then I can recommend something. But I just can’t blindly tell you a number... see reason 3 for further explanation

2. consistency is key.... so every morning on a empty stomach take your t4 for 2-3 weeks then pull bloods to see if adjustments are needed. - reason being on a empty stomach is we are talking micrograms not milligrams when dosing t4. So you want to make sure nothing is in the stomach that could potentially absorb the hormone you are consuming... another reason you should only buy t4 from actual pharmacy company or the likes. I know a thing or 2 and NO ugl will be able to produce an actuate micro dose of anything u less they spent 200k+ on a mixing system and press.

3. the thyroid gland is very resilient and strong as fuck. But, to cause less stress you want to keep your t4 levels in the normal range too much could shit your production off and cause issues when getting off. Not enough will cause you thyroid to work harder like it currently is. I have taken t4 for a year straight and 3 weeks later after stopping growth and t4 it was in the normal range.... your T3 level will take a little longer to stabilize.

4. as with any medication their are always risk. You don’t have any thyroid issues prior to running t4 but, you will be consuming t4 something your body is used to producing without the help of medication. So yes their is always going to be risk related. In my experience I have never had any issues with any of my systems not bouncing back besides my test levels.

if you are serious about it and can pull bloodwork once a month it’s an investment on tweaking your body to perform and build with the minimal gear needed.

I said it before I say it again... for the past several years 5-6... I haven’t went over 300mg knowingly on test. I cycle growth and if I need a pick me up I will pop some var or tbol. I did do a few weeks of sdrol but quit that shit 2 weeks ago due to the side effects it was causing.

o and I take provi 25mg and 5mg cialis daily when I’m back in the states. I make sure to take my liver and kidney vitamins and other for basic needs. I never overthink stuff and just keep it simple. I’m not the biggest fella there is but for the most part I’m healthy and at the end of the day that’s what matters cause I got kids.

All that makes sense. Thanks again, and l'll get at you once I get my T4 results. Nice to see you back, and you look ridiculous in that photo.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

All that makes sense. Thanks again, and l'll get at you once I get my T4 results. Nice to see you back, and you look ridiculous in that photo.

Thanks bro. Yeah def let me know one way or the other and I will def try to help. In the mean time check the underground for pharmacy sources there are a couple here that sell true pharmacy stuff like t4

 

[Richard322]

Any feedback would be appreciated. My TSH level is within range, but my T3 is elevated or is low (still confused on that). I did another test on my T4, but I haven't gotten it back yet. I'm taking 3.3IU of optis Jins daily. Been on for few months. Could that T3 # be causing me lethargy? I'm exhausted pretty much all the time. I've read the entire internet about taking T4 when on GH and there's no definitive rule of thought. From those who say you should, they recommend 100mcg per 3IU of GH. What say you? Do you take T4 while on GH? Could that help my numbers, or is it not needed?

TIA

Sorry brother don’t having enough experience in that field of bodybuilding, but nice side chest look n full, keep up the hard work.

 

[Richard322]

Sorry brother don’t having enough experience in that field of bodybuilding, but nice side chest look n full, keep up the hard work.

That’s mighty mouses side chest! I got confused. Nice.

 

[138casanova]

Thanks bro. Yeah def let me know one way or the other and I will def try to help. In the mean time check the underground for pharmacy sources there are a couple here that sell true pharmacy stuff like t4

Will do. Thanks, again. I also have about 30ish at 137mcg that are pharma. They are scored and then I could split the halves depending on what dosage I end up on to get me started. Hoping I can just make a good argument to my doc and have him write a script. I'm literally going to blind your initial response and send it to him through our portal once I get the T4 results. My IGF was also tested at the same time. I'll post that.

One last question...for now, by supplementing T4, will my T3 go back down into normal range, or will it be even further elevated by more T4 conversion?

 

[mtt]

Yeah, I know it's high on the test, but when reading about TSH, T4 and T3, it's all a little confusing to me for some reason as it pertains to hypo and hyper thyroidism. My wellness doc who prescribes my T, Anavar, etc. tests me twice a year now. It used to be once a quarter, but I have gone to twice a year.

I'm taking 3.3IU daily (6 days a week) of optis Jin.

It says right on the report that your TSH is normal and you can see by the numbers that it is within range. Total t4 is a bit low but the more important measure is FREE t4 because that's what your body actually use. Similar with Test. A lot of your free test gets bounded by SHGB and is rendered useless. It's the FREE Test that matters and is actually what is doing the work. As one gets older more of their Test gets bounded by SHGB. There are some, I believe someone on this thread has this, as well as myself, have Total Test levels that are midrange but Free Test is high and outside the reference range.