Isis/Muslim/terrorist rant

This guy preys on the gullible and confused CBS, don't be one of his victims!

Didn't you claim the other day I posted something by a holocaust denying website or author or something like that and now you post something by someone who denies the Bosnian genocides ever happened? If the shoe fits.....

Spenser does honorable work and doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is. There are several pro-Islamic and left wing websites like you just posted that are dedicated to attacking Spenser's character, however none are able to refute his arguments. Spenser is willing to debate any Islamic scholar, anytime, anywhere, and has debated many prominent clerics.

And FYI, Spenser has lectured major US law enforcement and intelligence agencies, as well as the US Military. I don't think your Nazi anti-Semite friends can make that claim. LMFAO
 
Spenser does honorable work and doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is. There are several pro-Islamic and left wing websites like you just posted that are dedicated to attacking Spenser's character, however none are able to refute his arguments. Spenser is willing to debate any Islamic scholar, anytime, anywhere, and has debated many prominent clerics.

And FYI, Spenser has lectured major US law enforcement and intelligence agencies, as well as the US Military. I don't think your Nazi anti-Semite friends can make that claim. LMFAO

Spreading hate is honorable? Since when?

Maybe that's why there's so many atrocities towards innocent Muslims at the hand of major US law enforcement and intel eugenics as well as military so I guess no, the people I quoted wouldn't be able to "reference that accomplishment" :)
 
Docd, comparing Robert Spenser and David Horowitz to Global Research and your Nazi friends proves you are a fucking idiot. You have no interest in meaningful discussion. Sadly, you're no different than the bigots and morons at TID. What a bitter disappointment you turned out to be.
 
Spreading hate is honorable? Since when?

Maybe that's why there's so many atrocities towards innocent Muslims at the hand of major US law enforcement and intel eugenics as well as military so I guess no, the people I quoted wouldn't be able to "reference that accomplishment" :)

It must be honorable, he consulted for the FBI and CIA. Of course those are evil organizations that abuse Muslims, right? Clown
 
The Islam-Basher and the Librarian Kerfuffle
Ahmed Rehab
Posted: 08/14/09 05:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 01:35 PM ET
A controversy erupted last week in Chicago after it was publicly revealed that a noted anti-Islam blogger, Robert Spencer, had been invited to an American Library Association panel advertised as "dispelling stereotypes about Islam."

Ultimately, the panel was canceled after all the other panelists withdrew. I'll get into that in a minute, but first, who is Robert Spencer?



2009-07-14-robertspencer.jpg



In his own words:



Robert Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch, a program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and the author of eight books on Islam and jihad.


Spencer is a weekly columnist for Human Events andFrontPage Magazine.

Spencer has also written eleven monographs and well over three hundred articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism. Along with the bestsellers The Truth About Muhammad, Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion (Regnery) and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (Regnery), he is the author ofIslam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest Growing Faith (Encounter); Onward Muslim Soldiers: How Jihad Still Threatens America and the West (Regnery); and Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't (Regnery), a refutation of moral equivalence and call for all the beneficiaries and heirs of Judeo-Christian Western civilization, whatever their own religious or philosophical perspective may be, to defend it from the global jihad.

More recently he has also written monographs for the David Horowitz Freedom Center: What Americans Need to Know About Jihad; The Violent Oppression of Women In Islam (with Phyllis Chesler); Islamic Leaders' Plan for Genocide; and Muslim Persecution of Christians.



In case his one-sided tone and unabashed slant has left you a little queasy, Spencer is sure to add:



"Spencer has been studying Islamic theology, law, and history in depth since 1980."


Longevity equals credibility, eh? (Or put another way, it's been ample time for him to perfect his bias.)

Spencer postures himself as an "Islamic Scholar." But unlike most people we tend to call "scholars," Spencer did not burden himself with the traditional scholarly route that puts an emphasis on objectivity and academic rigor.

There is a good reason for this: his "scholarly" methodologies would not jive in any of our nation's accredited PhD programs let alone a path for tenure where he would have to get his papers peer-reviewed and have his methodology checked by notable scholars for objectivity and a lack of bias (unless, of course, David Horowitz decides to build the David Horowitz Freedom University).

Spencer dismisses such criticism as follows: he is right, and all of the tenured professors of Islamic studies, with their inconvenient knack for unbiased scholarship, are wrong. After all, universities are the establishment of the left-wing liberal conspiracy.

Besides who needs peer-reviewed papers, Spencer seems content to receive rave reviews from Weasel Zippers, http://www.nicedoggie.net/2008/, Atlas Shrugs, Muslims are Terrorists, and of course, frontpagemag.com, that other gem of a creation, and bastion of objectivity, by the guy who cuts his checks.

Now, I will be the first to admit that there are plenty of problems in the Muslim world. I welcome an honest and responsible critique any day. But honest and responsible Spencer's agenda-driven hatemongering is not. I am not not the only one to take issue with Spencer's technique. Most objective scholars and professors of Islamic studies dismiss the guy as laughably fraudulent and amateur.

The independent national media watch group, FAIR (Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting), http://www.smearcasting.com/smear_spencer.html as one of the "Dirty Dozen: America's leading Islamophobes" who systematically "spread fear, bigotry, and misinformation." The special report, entitled "Smearcasters" provides examples of Spencer's sensational views.

So let us take a quick look at the crux of Spencer's methodology which is as disingenuous as his conclusions are sensational. In fact, it can be analogized to the three acts of a magic trick as described in the movie The Prestige.

The Set Up: Spencer and his associates scour the web for the most sensational and extreme expressions within the Muslim world. They may be related to a certain extremist interpretation of Islam, or may not even have anything to do with Islam altogether, but that won't matter, so long as the perpetrator is a Muslim, it will do.

The Performance: Spencer then supplants his own commentary on the story which he meticulously crafts with the ultimate goal of convincing his readers that the bizarre incident in question is representative of the faith of Islam and Muslims at large. This subtle leap of faith that he hopes no one notices is the key to his magic act.

The Prestige: He can then rightly claim, with the innocence of a schoolboy, that he does not make up the material he produces, that he is merely quoting things as is, hoping no one notices that he uses the aberrant to define the normative.

Yet, methodology is not the only disingenuous thing about Spencer, his marketing is as well. In selling himself, Spencer engages in double speak where he engages in one tone when riling up his right-wing fan base via his blog, books and documentaries and a whole other tone when hoping to be perceived as credible by the mainstream media.

Consider his most recent interview in which he denies my assertion that he subscribes to the point of view that Islam is evil:



Mr. Spencer challenged that interpretation of his views in an e-mail to The Times.

"Terrorists use the texts and teachings of Islam to make recruits among peaceful Muslims, and to justify their war against the United States and the West. I explore how they do it," he said.






Here he is claiming that he is simply interested in exploring how terrorists abuse Islam. That is an exercise none of us can fault. In fact, if this were truly his premise, I would count myself as a fan. But then you look at his actual work and you don't even need to go beyond their titles to see that he is lying through his back teeth.

Consider his most touted work, Muhammad, founder of the world's most intolerant religion. Note that he does not attribute intolerance and all the other lovely qualities he covers in this book to the extremist ideologies within the Muslim world, but to the basic religion itself. Contrary to what he claims in the above quote, his beef is not with extremists or terrorists like Bin Laden - but with Islam and Muslims. He claims to be an intellectual warrior in the "war on terror" but really brings in the baggage of an apocalyptic preacher out to bash a "rival" faith.

Similarly, consider his film "What the West Needs to Know about Islam," note he does not specify "radical Islam" or "terrorism" but "Islam." Indeed the whole film is dedicated to demonizing just that - Islam - as you can see for yourself if you watch it.

Now let me be clear, if Spencer wishes to take the position that Islam itself is the problem, as opposed to extremist interpretations, fine, he is entitled to that position. But the fact that he would take this position and then lie about it makes him not only a purveyor of medieval polemics, but deceptive on top of that. (I suspect he deceived the ALA in a similar fashion to get the invite.)

Which takes us back to the ALA Panel:

After the panel cancellation Robert Spencer claimed to be a victim of censorship brought about by the acquiescence of the weak-kneed ALA to the ominous and sinister CAIR.

But is that really what happened?

Before we get into the details, let me say this:

It never ceases to amaze me how the likes of Robert Spencer and Michael Savage who gleefully spout off anti-Muslim propaganda touting the freedom of speech card, suddenly feel threatened and victimized when Muslims use their own freedom of speech to respond. Spencer has a right to speak, Savage has a right to speak, and so does CAIR.

Yet when Muslims exercise the same basic rights that the Islamophobes claim to defend on behalf of Western civilization, the Islamophobes somehow cry "Sharia-foul." Their Muslim critics are hitherto branded as "Hamas-linked" or "Terror-linked." No evidence needs be provided, just regurgitation of other people's accusations.

As it so happens, CAIR does not concern itself with censoring or silencing Spencer's earth-shattering truthinessas he routinely claims on his website. Spencer speaks regularly at college campuses at the invitation of student groups like the College Republicans. He publishes books, produces documentaries, and freely blogs on a daily basis.

2009-07-14-robertspencer2.jpg

If anything, CAIR advertises Spencer's website every time it mentions Spencer in a press release, probably helping drive traffic to his website. How does this support Spencer's self-important claim that CAIR is afraid of what he has to say?

CAIR's position is that Spencer's own dismal record speaks for itself.

In fact, CAIR-Chicago's call on the ALA to rescind Spencer's invitation was not about Spencer but about the ALA, specifically: a) questioning why a respectable organization like the ALA would secretly invite an Islam-basher for an event designed to dispel stereotypes about Islam, and b) demanding that the ALA take responsibility for its misrepresentation of the panel event to the other panelists involved and to the public, and to provide an appropriate remedy for their error.

CAIR was not the only one to protest the ALA's inexplicable action, nor was it even the first to do so. Librarians affiliated with the ALA had launched their own protest before CAIR wrote to the ALA, and a Chicago federation of over 50 Islamic organizations later did the same in its own letter to the ALA.

Here are excerpts from my letters to the ALA:



"Would the ALA invite a notorious anti-Semite on a panel that aims to dispel stereotypes against Jews? Would they allow such an invitation to squeeze through under the guise of promoting diversity and averting censorship?

"People are free to hold extreme, bigoted views but whether they should be invited by reputable associations like the ALA to spew these views is a different question. That is the question ALA must answer..."

"We too support freedom of speech, including that of bigots; what we oppose is false advertising. If the ALA was sponsoring a debate on whether Islam is evil and publicized that Mr. Spencer was an invited panelist, we would not have asked to rescind Spencer's invitation, as the sordid nature of the event would have been honestly communicated to all."

"Everyone could then have made informed decisions about whether they wished to be co-panelists or attendees. But that is not what happened."


So what actually happened to get us to this point?

Here are the facts that Spencer has managed to confabulate on his website's rendition of events:

The ALA invited three Muslims three months ago to a panel entitled "Perspectives on Islam: Beyond the Stereotyping" that was scheduled to take place last Sunday during the ALA's annual conference held in Chicago.

The three invitees were Dr. Marcia Hermansen, Director of the Islamic World Studies Program and Professor in the Theology Department Loyola University Chicago; Dr. Esmail Koushanpour Emeritus professor, Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago, & Former Executive Director of the Islamic Cultural Center of Greater Chicago; and Dr. Alia Ammar, Chief Neuropsychologist, Geriatric Care Association & member of the Islamic Foundation North.

Misrepresentation

These three distinguished members of society accepted the invitation eager to help dispel the prevalent stereotypes about their faith and their community. At no point did the ALA bother to inform the Muslim panelists that Spencer -- a guy who makes a living out of promoting those very same stereotypes -- was also invited. As a result, the ALA denied them the opportunity - nay, the right - to make an informed decision on whether they wanted to be part of such a panel, and if they did, then having the time to make the necessary preparations regarding how Spencer's contributions were bound to change the stated nature of the event.

Months later and only days before the event was to take place, Dr. Hermansen discovers by mere chance that Robert Spencer was in fact a fourth panelist. Dr. Hermansen informs the other two panelists and later informs me. Though shocked and disappointed in the ALA's bizarre behavior, she along with Dr. Alia decide to stay on board. The third panelist, Dr. Koushanpour drops out in protest. I write my own letter of protest to the ALA, as the Executive Director of CAIR-Chicago.

On his website, Spencer disputes the fact that the panelists were never informed by the ALA that he would be speaking, but the proof is in the pudding. Here is the email that broke the news to Dr. Hermansen (note the date):



From: Marcia Hermansen
Date: July 6, 2009 8:07:26 AM CDT
To: xxxx@LISTS.xxxx.EDU
Subject: Marcia Hermansen and Robert Spencer
Reply-To: Marcia Hermansen


Thanks--I didn't know about this--I thought I was on an informational panel for librarians--I guess this turns up the heat!

"xxxx" [xxxx@xxxx.xxxx] 07/06/09 3:06 AM >>> Dear Colleagues,

I just found out on from the MELA list that Marcia Hermansen and Robert Spencer will be on an invited panel at the Ethnic and Multicultural Information Exchange Round Table (EMIERT) panel at the American Librarians Association annual meeting on July 12.



By that point, librarians and academics who are on the ALA's internal mailing lists had already lodged their own complaint to the ALA via an open letter expressing their concerns and astonishment at the invitation of someone like Spencer to a panel like this. The letter reads in part:



Even the most cursory overview of Mr. Spencer's oeuvre makes it clear that in fact he has no place on a panel whose aim is to dispel stereotypes about Islam. Indeed, we, as librarians, scholars, and individuals are deeply concerned by ALA & EMIERT's choice of Mr. Spencer for such a panel: Mr. Spencer espouses a view of Islam as a system of belief which is essentially violent, undemocratic, totalitarian, exclusive and at war with all non-Muslims. Mr. Spencer in fact goes as far as to equate Islam with fascism.

Hence a question arises as to the justification for inviting a speaker who cannot see anything positive about Islamic beliefs, cultures, societies, histories, etc. to talk to an audience in order to dispel negative views of Islam. We are indeed saddened and puzzled by ALA's choice for their panel, especially in that this appears to be a rare opportunity to educate people about Islam against the backdrop of an overwhelming atmosphere of ignorance, and negative stereotyping (For example a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll released right before Obama's speech to the Muslim world in Cairo shows that only 1 in 5 Americans have a favorable view of Islam & 60 percent of Americans believe the Muslim world is at war with the United States).


The Executive Director of the CIOGC, a federation of 50 Muslim organizations protested to the ALA as well:



"Robert Spencer is an Islamophobe and his hateful views, while clearly protected under the First Amendment, are antithetical to promoting diversity. Mr. Spencer promotes hateful anti-Muslim rhetoric. Giving this individual a platform to advance his hate speech on a panel discussion aimed at dispelling stereotypes about Islam is simply wrong.


The remaining two panelists supported those protests and sent in their own. However, they told CAIR-Chicago that they did not intend to withdraw from the panel. CAIR-Chicago did not contest their decision. This fully contradicts Spencer's speculative claim that the panelists were ordered to withdraw by CAIR.

It was not until later, after the panelists felt that the ALA was handling the situation with a lack of professionalism and basic courtesy, that they decided to withdraw.

Here they are in their own words which is a matter of public record:

In announcing her withdrawal, Dr. Marcia Hermansen wrote to the ALA:



"While I heartily endorse the principles of free expression and diversity of viewpoints that are part of the ALA mission, the way in which this information session about Islam and Muslims for Ethnic and Multi-Cultural librarians was modified and politicized at the last moment raises serious concerns about the integrity of the session."


Dr. Alia Ammar wrote:



"Given the substantial changes in the composition, subject, and direction of the ALA panel to which I was invited to present as well as the blatant misinformation provided regarding the purpose of the session, it would [be] untenable to present in your forum...The lack of professionalism with which this matter has been handled has been wholly disappointing as the efforts of the originally invited panelists to reach a respectable solution to the problem were simply ignored. In light of these developments, I respectfully decline to participate in the panel."


As a result, the ALA decided to cancel the event.

So there you have it, the real account of what transpired. There is only one piece of the puzzle left missing. How did a guy like Spencer end up on a panel organized by the ALA in the first place?

My sources tell me that he was added at the behest of Ellen Zyroff of San Diego, head of a group called the Jewish Librarians, and a Zionist activist. She reportedly lobbied the ALA to invite Spencer arguing that "their side needed to be represented." Now this is a panel called "Perspectives on Islam: Beyond the Stereotyping." So the question becomes, what is that alternative perspective she wishes to see represented? That stereotypes about Islam should bepromoted rather than dispelled? And what does she mean by "their side" anyway? What do Zionist activists have to do with Islam?

Having received this tip, I am of the opinion that the ALA did not act with ill-intent in associating with Spencer, but was merely guilty of being oblivious to his discredited record, as well as failing to adequately challenge Zyroff's reasoning for suggesting him.

They began to realize who Spencer really was after other librarians protested, but he had already been invited. The ALA, reluctant to disinvite him and be accused of censorship, felt stuck with the invitation. By not telling the other panelists, perhaps they hoped to minimize the damage.


Moving forward, the ALA needs to acknowledge its mistake, apologize to the panelists and the public, and institute more robust standards in order to engage the communities it serves. It also needs to ensure transparent measures to protect itself from being blindsided by cynical agenda-driven maneuvers like the one Zyroff allegedly pulled off.

As for Spencer, he is likely to continue to feel victimized by others speaking out against his one-track innuendo. I would not be surprised if he were to read this piece only to respond with a juvenile personal attack against me on hishate blog. As usual, he will be joined by the usual cacophony of blogger friends from the Islamophobic blogosphere followed by a love fest in the comments section.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/231127
 
Docd, comparing Robert Spenser and David Horowitz to Global Research and your Nazi friends proves you are a fucking idiot. You have no interest in meaningful discussion. Sadly, you're no different than the bigots and morons at TID. What a bitter disappointment you turned out to be.

And neither do you as you've shown the Jewish people can do absolutely no wrong and the world is cursed bc of the Muslim religion. Let's ask our Bosnian friends what they think about the genocides that NEVER happened according to your friend and mentor Mr. Spencer.
 
You wish. It's nice to see you're posting references though. It least I taught you something.

Ok but don't forget to include how you also taught me hypocrisy, how to be an Israeli apologetic at the expense of all Muslim people, and that drunks and quacks you agree with are the only credible sources out there but that's it.

PS: I hope I can still remain on your Ramadan card mailing list :)
 
Wait for it..... Wait for it...... Wait for it......

Omg, so you've been doing some reading!? Well congratulations here's some more reading for you to do:



As the hijackers boarded the airplanes on Sept. 11, 2001, they had a lot on their minds. And if they were following instructions, one of those things was the Quran.

In preparation for the suicide attack, their handlers had told them to meditate on two chapters of the Quran in which God tells Muslims to "cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers."

"Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," Allah instructs the Prophet Muhammad (Quran, 9:5). He continues: "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."

When Osama bin Laden declared war on the West in 1996, he cited the Quran's command to "strike off" the heads of unbelievers. More recently, U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Hasan lectured his colleagues about jihad, or "holy war," and the Quran's exhortation to fight unbelievers and bring them low. Hasan is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, last year.

Given this violent legacy, religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.

Defense Vs. Total Annihilation

"Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.

Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages , which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran? March 18, 2010
And yet it did just that. When most modern churches explain their understanding of Christ's identity — their Christology — they turn to a common body of ready-made interpretations, an ancient collection of texts laid down in the fifth century. At a great council held in 451 at Chalcedon (near modern Istanbul), the church formulated the statement that eventually became the official theology of the Roman Empire. This acknowledges Christ in two natures, which joined together in one person. Two natures existed, "without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person."

We cannot speak of Christ without declaring his full human nature, which was not even slightly diluted or abolished by the presence of divinity. That Chalcedonian definition today stands as the official formula for the vast majority of Christians, whether they are Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox — although how many of those believers could explain the definition clearly is open to debate. But as we are told, Chalcedon settled any controversy about the identity of Christ, so that henceforward any troublesome passages in the Bible or early tradition had to be read in the spirit of those powerful words. For over 1,500 years now, Chalcedon has provided the answer to Jesus' great question.

But Chalcedon was not the only possible solution, nor was it an obvious or, perhaps, a logical one. Only the political victory of Chalcedon's supporters allowed that council's ideas to become the inevitable lens through which later generations interpret the Christian message. It remains quite possible to read the New Testament and find very different Christologies, which by definition arose from churches very close to Jesus' time, and to his thought world. In particular, we easily find passages that suggest that the man

Jesus achieved Godhood at a specific moment during his life, or indeed after his earthly death.

In political terms, the most important critics of Chalcedon were those who stressed Christ's one divine nature, and from the Greek words for "one nature," we call them Monophysites. Not only were Monophysites numerous and influential, but they dominated much of the Christian world and the Roman Empire long after Chalcedon had done its work, and they were only defeated after decades of bloody struggle. Centuries after Chalcedon, Monophysites continued to prevail in the most ancient regions of Christianity, such as Syria, Palestine, and Egypt. The heirs of the very oldest churches, the ones with the most direct and authentic ties to the apostolic age, found their distinctive interpretation of Christ ruled as heretical. Pedigree counted for little in these struggles.

Each side persecuted its rivals when it had the opportunity to do so, and tens of thousands — at least — perished. Christ's nature was a cause for which people were prepared to kill and to die, to persecute or to suffer martyrdom. Modern Christians rarely feel much sympathy for either side in such bygone religious wars. Did the issues at stake really matter enough to justify bloodshed? Yet obviously, people at the time had no such qualms and cared passionately about how believers were supposed to understand the Christ they worshipped. Failing to understand Christ's natures properly made nonsense of everything Christians treasured: the content of salvation and redemption, the character of liturgy and Eucharist, the figure of the Virgin Mary. Each side had its absolute truth, faith in which was essential to salvation.

Horror stories about Christian violence abound in other eras, with the Crusades and Inquisition as prime exhibits; but the intra- Christian violence of the fifth- and sixth-century debates was on a far larger and more systematic scale than anything produced by the Inquisition and occurred at a much earlier stage of church history. When Edward Gibbon wrote his classic account of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, he reported countless examples of Christian violence and fanaticism. This is his account of the immediate aftermath of Chalcedon:

Jerusalem was occupied by an army of [Monophysite] monks; in the name of the one incarnate Nature, they pillaged, they burnt, they murdered; the sepulchre of Christ was defiled with blood. . . . On the third day before the festival of Easter, the [Alexandrian] patriarch was besieged in the cathedral, and murdered in the baptistery. The remains of his mangled corpse were delivered to the flames, and his ashes to the wind; and the deed was inspired by the vision of a pretended angel. . . . This deadly superstition was inflamed, on either side, by the principle and the practice of retaliation: in the pursuit of a metaphysical quarrel, many thousands were slain.

Chalcedonians behaved at least as badly in their campaigns to enforce their particular orthodoxy. In the eastern city of Amida, a Chalcedonian bishop dragooned dissidents, to the point of burning them alive. His most diabolical scheme involving taking lepers, "hands festering and dripping with blood and pus," and billeting them on the Monophysite faithful until they saw reason.

Even the Eucharist became a vital component of religious terror. Throughout the long religious wars, people were regularly (and frequently) reading others out of the church, declaring formal anathemas, and the sign for this was admitting or not admitting people to communion. In extreme episodes, communion was enforced by physical violence, so that the Eucharist, which is based upon ideas of self-giving and self-sacrifice, became an instrument of oppression. A sixth-century historian records how the forces of Constantinople's Chalcedonian patriarch struck at Monophysite religious houses in the capital. Furnished with supplies of consecrated bread, the patriarch's clergy were armed and dangerous. They "dragged and pulled [the nuns] by main force to make them receive the communion at their hands. And they all fled like birds before the hawk, and cowered down in corners, wailing and saying, 'We cannot communicate with the synod of Chalcedon, which divides Christ our God into two Natures after the union, and teaches a Quaternity instead of the Holy Trinity.'" But their protests were useless. "They were dragged up to communicate; and when they held their hands above their heads, in spite of their screams their hands were seized, and they were dragged along, uttering shrieks of lamentation, and sobs, and loud cries, and struggling to escape. And so the sacrament was thrust by force into the mouths of some, in spite of their screams, while others threw themselves on their faces upon the ground, and cursed every one who required them to communicate by force." They might take the Eucharist kicking and screaming — literally — but once they had eaten, they were officially in communion with Chalcedon and with the church that preached that doctrine.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
Yes there is indeed a lot of violence and some fucked up shit in the old testament but what you argument fails to address is the NEW TESTAMENT that Christians site as their guide has none of this violent writing. Next you'll say but the crusades , the crusaders where so violent and slaughtered the muslims in the holy land. No doubt the crusades were violent but they only came about because pilgrims to the holy land were being butchered and or robbed by musllims doing the exact same thing they do today. Now tell me about how evil the early Catholic church because we all know about horrible things the early Catholics did once again true but the Christian faith also went through a reformation under Martian Luther which brought about great changes in the Christian faith for the better. The Muslim faith is unchanged they're still practicing the old crazy shit there's been no reformation there's been no reorganization of the faith from the violent past. Our past on this earth from one side to the other was extremely violent , no one or no culture I should say is beyond reproach if you look at the violence of the past. The problem today is the Progressives in the media have an axe to grind with Christians the hate America and the freedoms given her people , America was founded by Christians you can argue bat shit crazy conspiracies about the illuminati and the masons all you want but truly we were a Christian nation. So the media and the progressives on the left who own Hollywood and almost the entire education system are rewriting history before our eyes they have aligned themselves with Muslims because the enemy of my enemy is my friend right. These hypocritical idiots have no plans for what to do when they help Muslim extremists defeat the west they just have so much hatred for the west that they're not even worried about the FACT that the muslims are a far greater threat to all their pet groups such as homosexuals , feminists and anyone who doesn't worship @ the alter of Allah.
 
Lol. I'm so tired of Muslims hating on christianity over All this. The crusades. You alls holy war is still going on. Your countries are divided onto north fighting south Kurds vs Shia etc etc. isis is right now. And secretman have you forgot how to scroll. You say we many times regarding isis. Don't back off your hate now that your getting Abu grabed Holmes
 
Maybe I did wish it but it's my lucky day as my wish came true!

It shouldn't have been a surprise. I've made no secret of the fact that I don't suffer fools and have no problem calling them such.

Ok but don't forget to include how you also taught me hypocrisy, how to be an Israeli apologetic at the expense of all Muslim people, and that drunks and quacks you agree with are the only credible sources out there but that's it.

I see what your problem is. It's those dirty Jews, isn't it Doc?

It must be since you've proven that not you're not capable of discussing this topic in an intelligent manner. You've been unable to construct so much as a rudimentary argument. And don't forget the Nazi websites you read.
 
Let's ask our Bosnian friends what they think about the genocides that NEVER happened according to your friend and mentor Mr. Spencer.

More crap from the lunatic fringe to which you subscribe. I hope you don't attend an Ivy League school, Doc. You ability to think critically is worse than your inability to construct an argument. Since you're obviously not being taught the importance of critical thought in school, here's some free advice: Just because something's written on the internet, it doesn't mean it's true. Now you think long and hard about that until it sinks in, Docd. You'll be the better for it.

The charge: Robert Spencer denies the Srebrenica genocide and justifies Serbian war crimes against Muslims.

The facts: This charge implies that Spencer approves of violence against innocent Muslims, which is absolutely false. It is based on two (out of over 40,000) articles published at Jihad Watch in http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/06/jatras-playing-the-devils-advocate.html and http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/after-14-years-of-investigating-events-that-took-place-in-srebrenica-in-1995-i-can-attest-there-was.html questioning whether the massacre of Muslim civilians in Srebrenica in 1995, which was unquestionably heinous, rises to the level of an attempt to exterminate an entire people. Neither was written by Spencer and neither approves of the killing of Muslims or anyone. In “Srebrenica as Genocide? The Krstić Decision and the Language of the Unspeakable,” published in the http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/LawJournals/southwick.pdf, Vol. VIII in 2005, Katherine G. Southwick writes:


In August 2001, a trial chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) handed down the tribunal’s first genocide conviction. In this landmark case, Prosecutor v. Radislav Krstić, the trial chamber determined that the 1995 Srebrenica massacres””in which Bosnian Serb forces executed 7,000-8,000 Bosnian Muslim men””constituted genocide. This Note acknowledges the need for a dramatic expression of moral outrage at the most terrible massacre in Europe since the Second World War. However, this Note also challenges the genocide finding. By excluding consideration of the perpetrators” motives for killing the men, such as seeking to eliminate a military threat, the Krstić chamber’s method for finding specific intent to destroy the Bosnian Muslims, in whole or in part, was incomplete. The chamber also loosely construed other terms in the genocide definition, untenably broadening the meaning and application of the crime. The chamber’s interpretation of genocide in turn has problematic implications for the tribunal, enforcement of international humanitarian law, and historical accuracy. Thus highlighting instances where inquiry into motives may be relevant to genocide determinations, this Note ultimately argues for preserving distinctions between genocide and crimes against humanity, while simultaneously expanding the legal obligation to act to mass crimes that lack proof of genocidal intent​
If Spencer is guilty of “genocide denial,” so also is the Yale Human Rights & Development Law Journal. In reality, neither are. The raising of legitimate questions does not constitute either the denial or the excusing of the evils that Serbian forces perpetrated at Srebrenica or anywhere else.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/the-truth-about-robert-spencer-rebuttals-to-false-charges
 
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Secretman it is so funny that when a few posts were made pointing out Feds and MI5 up your ass you claim your not an isis supporter. They can read dumb fuck. You talk of what your allowed to do to American female detainees via rape and torture. But your not a supporter???? I bet you can't go to walmart right now without a satellite checking your groceries in the parking lot. This shit is not a game. Shame on you for bringing that to this board. Can anyone tell me what the process is for banning someone from here? We don't need this here. This place is for good people to gather knowledge about training and aas. Go be a terrorist at eroids and take the spook hackers with you. Then you could at least do something good for all the heat you brought here. Not cool man.
 
Yes there is indeed a lot of violence and some fucked up shit in the old testament but what you argument fails to address is the NEW TESTAMENT that Christians site as their guide has none of this violent writing. Next you'll say but the crusades , the crusaders where so violent and slaughtered the muslims in the holy land. No doubt the crusades were violent but they only came about because pilgrims to the holy land were being butchered and or robbed by musllims doing the exact same thing they do today. Now tell me about how evil the early Catholic church because we all know about horrible things the early Catholics did once again true but the Christian faith also went through a reformation under Martian Luther which brought about great changes in the Christian faith for the better. The Muslim faith is unchanged they're still practicing the old crazy shit there's been no reformation there's been no reorganization of the faith from the violent past. Our past on this earth from one side to the other was extremely violent , no one or no culture I should say is beyond reproach if you look at the violence of the past. The problem today is the Progressives in the media have an axe to grind with Christians the hate America and the freedoms given her people , America was founded by Christians you can argue bat shit crazy conspiracies about the illuminati and the masons all you want but truly we were a Christian nation. So the media and the progressives on the left who own Hollywood and almost the entire education system are rewriting history before our eyes they have aligned themselves with Muslims because the enemy of my enemy is my friend right. These hypocritical idiots have no plans for what to do when they help Muslim extremists defeat the west they just have so much hatred for the west that they're not even worried about the FACT that the muslims are a far greater threat to all their pet groups such as homosexuals , feminists and anyone who doesn't worship @ the alter of Allah.

Do you know what Allah means?
 
It shouldn't have been a surprise. I've made no secret of the fact that I don't suffer fools and have no problem calling them such.



I see what your problem is. It's those dirty Jews, isn't it Doc?

It must be since you've proven that not you're not capable of discussing this topic in an intelligent manner. You've been unable to construct so much as a rudimentary argument. And don't forget the Nazi websites you read.

So quote me where I've said "dirty Jews" or blamed the Jewish religion for all the problems going on in the Middle East....it's ok I'll wait as long as it takes you :).

Unlike you, assuming here, I've worked side by side with Israelis to search for survivors and bodies after entire buildings were bombed to shit.

All you've proven is you prescribe to your own quackery. Nothing more nothing less.
 
So quote me where I've said "dirty Jews" or blamed the Jewish religion for all the problems going on in the Middle East....it's ok I'll wait as long as it takes you :).

Unlike you, assuming here, I've worked side by side with Israelis to search for survivors and bodies after entire buildings were bombed to shit.

All you've proven is you prescribe to your own quackery. Nothing more nothing less.

You didn't say it but people like you who post articles from Nazi websites, and then hide their source, don't tend to be friendly toward the Jews.

You're right, you're making assumptions. However, working "side-by-side" is irrelevant to this discussion and proves nothing.

I don't think you have any idea what I've proven because I don't think your emotions will allow you to see what's staring you in the face. You certainly don't know what my positions are - you've attempted to mischaracterize them every time you get the chance.
 
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More crap from the lunatic fringe to which you subscribe. I hope you don't attend an Ivy League school, Doc. You ability to think critically is worse than your inability to construct an argument. Since you're obviously not being taught the importance of critical thought in school, here's some free advice: Just because something's written on the internet, it doesn't mean it's true. Now you think long and hard about that until it sinks in, Docd. You'll be the better for it.

The charge: Robert Spencer denies the Srebrenica genocide and justifies Serbian war crimes against Muslims.

The facts: This charge implies that Spencer approves of violence against innocent Muslims, which is absolutely false. It is based on two (out of over 40,000) articles published at Jihad Watch in http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/06/jatras-playing-the-devils-advocate.html and http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/after-14-years-of-investigating-events-that-took-place-in-srebrenica-in-1995-i-can-attest-there-was.html questioning whether the massacre of Muslim civilians in Srebrenica in 1995, which was unquestionably heinous, rises to the level of an attempt to exterminate an entire people. Neither was written by Spencer and neither approves of the killing of Muslims or anyone. In “Srebrenica as Genocide? The Krstić Decision and the Language of the Unspeakable,” published in the http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/LawJournals/southwick.pdf, Vol. VIII in 2005, Katherine G. Southwick writes:


In August 2001, a trial chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) handed down the tribunal’s first genocide conviction. In this landmark case, Prosecutor v. Radislav Krstić, the trial chamber determined that the 1995 Srebrenica massacres””in which Bosnian Serb forces executed 7,000-8,000 Bosnian Muslim men””constituted genocide. This Note acknowledges the need for a dramatic expression of moral outrage at the most terrible massacre in Europe since the Second World War. However, this Note also challenges the genocide finding. By excluding consideration of the perpetrators” motives for killing the men, such as seeking to eliminate a military threat, the Krstić chamber’s method for finding specific intent to destroy the Bosnian Muslims, in whole or in part, was incomplete. The chamber also loosely construed other terms in the genocide definition, untenably broadening the meaning and application of the crime. The chamber’s interpretation of genocide in turn has problematic implications for the tribunal, enforcement of international humanitarian law, and historical accuracy. Thus highlighting instances where inquiry into motives may be relevant to genocide determinations, this Note ultimately argues for preserving distinctions between genocide and crimes against humanity, while simultaneously expanding the legal obligation to act to mass crimes that lack proof of genocidal intent​
If Spencer is guilty of “genocide denial,” so also is the Yale Human Rights & Development Law Journal. In reality, neither are. The raising of legitimate questions does not constitute either the denial or the excusing of the evils that Serbian forces perpetrated at Srebrenica or anywhere else.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/the-truth-about-robert-spencer-rebuttals-to-false-charges

More crap from the lunatic fringe to which you subscribe.

Since you were obviously never taught the importance of impartiality, here's some free advice from someone who subscribes to his own lunacy once given to me: Just because something's written on the internet, it doesn't mean it's true. Now you think long and hard about that until it sinks in, CBS. You'll be the better for it and so will our friends in Bosnia.

Look, your BFF made Lookwatch!

Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) rankedhttp://smearcasting.com/smear_spencer.html as the second leading Islamophobe in the country, losing out the number one position to his boss and financier http://smearcasting.com/smear_horowitz.html. Former Nixon advisor http://smearcasting.com/smear_spencer.html calls out Spencer as “the principal leader…in the new academic field of Islam-bashing.” Even though Horowitz can be credited with funding the modern day online Crusade against Islam, it is Robert Spencer who fights on the online battlefield, attacking his Muslim foes and their liberal dhimmi allies. In order to bolster his credibility, Spencer and his allies not only claim that he is a scholar, but his own website touts him as “the acclaimed scholar of Islam”. Because these words are boldly emblazoned on his own site, we can only assume that he takes such claims seriously. It is thus fair game to call him to task for this.

His claims notwithstanding, Robert Spencer simply does not possess any scholarly credentials. To be seriously considered a scholar in the academic world in this day and age, one must at minimum possess some rudimentary academic education in the field in which one is claiming scholarship. In order to be considered a scholar, one must have published numerous peer-reviewed articles in reputable journals, the articles being subjected to rigorous critique by established authorities before being accepted. First year students in Ph.D. programs have published far more of such articles than Robert Spencer ever has. There is good reason for that: Spencer has published no such articles, contenting himself with reproducing work in non-academic and populist publications. Spencer does not even possess a Master’s Degree in anything related to Islam, let alone a Ph.D. and post-doctoral fellowship. Spencer does have in M.A. in the field of early Christian studies; does that make him a scholar of Christianity? If not, then why is he considered a scholar of Islam without even an M.A. in Islamic studies?

It seems that Spencer wishes to bypass the minimum of eight years of studies needed to even be considered a serious student (let alone a scholar) and wishes simply to anoint himself the title of “scholar.” It is difficult to take any of his supporters seriously when they claim someone is “the acclaimed scholar of Islam” when he does not even have a Master’s Degree in the subject. Spencer’s followers, fans, and sister sites refer to him as a “scholar” and that’s enough of a credential for him. Ahmed Rehab wrote an excellent article on theHuffington Post that succinctly sums up Robert Spencer’s (lack of) “qualifications” as a scholar:

Spencer postures himself as an “Islamic Scholar.” But unlike most people we tend to call “scholars,” Spencer did not burden himself with the traditional scholarly route that puts an emphasis on objectivity and academic rigor.

There is a good reason for this: his “scholarly” methodologies would not jive in any of our nation’s accredited PhD programs let alone a path for tenure where he would have to get his papers peer-reviewed and have his methodology checked by notable scholars for objectivity and a lack of bias (unless, of course, David Horowitz decides to build the David Horowitz Freedom University).

Spencer dismisses such criticism as follows: he is right, and all of the tenured professors of Islamic studies, with their inconvenient knack for unbiased scholarship, are wrong. After all, universities are the establishment of the left-wing liberal conspiracy.

Besides who needs peer-reviewed papers, Spencer seems content to receive rave reviews from Weasel Zippers, http://www.nicedoggie.net/2008/,Atlas Shrugs, Muslims are Terrorists, and of course, frontpagemag.com, that other gem of a creation, and bastion of objectivity, by the guy who cuts his checks.

Now, I will be the first to admit that there are plenty of problems in the Muslim world. I welcome an honest and responsible critique any day. But honest and responsible Spencer’s agenda-driven hatemongering is not. I am not not the only one to take issue with Spencer’s technique. Most objective scholars and professors of Islamic studies dismiss the guy as laughably fraudulent and amateur.

The fact that Robert Spencer posits himself as a “scholar” calls to question his credibility, and one cannot escape the conclusion that he is nothing but an intellectual huckster. Just as we would view a person as a quack for claiming to be a physician without having gone to medical school, likewise we must declare Spencer a fraud. Quite frankly, he is a boldfaced liar, for claiming to be something that he is not. His claims to scholarship ought not be taken seriously, and his title of “the acclaimed scholar of Islam” ought to be considered the epitome of hilarity.

Neither is Robert Spencer’s methodology scholarly. Because he is not accustomed to nor subjected to scholarly peer review, Spencer can use populist arguments that appeal to the layperson but not to the serious student or scholar. Ahmed Rehab explains Spencer’s basic methodology:

So let us take a quick look at the crux of Spencer’s methodology which is as disingenuous as his conclusions are sensational. In fact, it can be analogized to the three acts of a magic trick as described in the movie The Prestige.

The Set Up: Spencer and his associates scour the web for the most sensational and extreme expressions within the Muslim world. They may be related to a certain extremist interpretation of Islam, or may not even have anything to do with Islam altogether, but that won’t matter, so long as the perpetrator is a Muslim, it will do.

The Performance: Spencer then supplants his own commentary on the story which he meticulously crafts with the ultimate goal of convincing his readers that the bizarre incident in question is representative of the faith of Islam and Muslims at large. This subtle leap of faith that he hopes no one notices is the key to his magic act.

The Prestige: He can then rightly claim, with the innocence of a schoolboy, that he does not make up the material he produces, that he is merely quoting things as is, hoping no one notices that he uses the aberrant to define the normative.

Rehab’s analysis is good, but it seems necessary to add the missing element. Yes, it is true that Spencer points to the most extremist interpretations of Islam and then claims they represent the faith. But he also points to ultraconservativeinterpretations of Islam (which ought not be considered exactly synonymous with “the most extremist interpretations of Islam”) and then reinforces the authority of these interpretations by quoting texts from the classical Islamic texts. It does not matter to Spencer or his audience that these medieval texts were written hundreds of years ago; these views become the “normative” understanding of the religion. He ignores the fact that, like Judaism and Christianity, Islamic thought is not static and has developed over the last century. It is thus that a contemporary Muslim can read an ancient legal text without taking it as the Gospel truth, perhaps agreeing with it in general but disagreeing on certain points. But to Spencer, a Muslim who picks up any such book must automatically agree with it 100%, without question.

Spencer’s work involves labeling the extremist or ultraconservative views of Islam as “the real (and only) Islam” 70% of the time, and wholesale fabrication 30% of the time. This 70/30 strategy works well for him, because he can claim that he didn’t make up the 70% by quoting REAL Muslims who say such. And the remaining 30% is slipped in between the 70%, requiring an astute and informed mind to catch it. Let’s see this article of Spencer’s to see the 70/30 strategy in action. He makes two arguments on that page, as follows:

The two recent cases in which I was involved had to do with the closure of the gates of ijtihad and the arrangement of Qur’anic suras…

1. The gates of ijtihad are closed…

2. The Qur’an is arranged from the longest to the shortest chapters…

Point #1 is the 70%, and point #2 is the 30%. In point #1, Spencer claims that the “gates of ijtihad” are closed. The Arabic word ijtihad refers to the independent analysis of the Quran and Prophetic traditions. If the gate is closed, this means that Muslims are “stuck with” the traditional opinions expressed hundreds of years ago during a very intolerant time in world history. In other words, Muslims cannot reform their religion because the gates of ijtihad are closed.

To “prove” his claim, Spencer says: “Here is some material from Muslims” and then quotes a few random Muslims who said as much, linking to an Islamic website. This is how Spencer cites sources, using as authoritative even no-name random websites. For example, on p.76 of his book ThePolitically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), Spencer makes the following incredible claim:

…As many as 75 percent of the imprisoned women in Pakistan are, in fact, behind bars for the crime of being a victim of rape. [34]

When one flips to the back of his book, one reads that the source, footnote [34], reads:

[34] See Sisters in Islam, “Rape, Zina, and Incest,” April 6, 2000, http://www.muslimtents.com/sistersinislam/resources/sdefini.htm

The link is broken, but the site he sourced has been archived here. It’s just random website that says:

In Pakistan, it is reported that three out of four women in prison under its Hudud laws, are rape victims.

“It is reported…”? By whom? What authority? Who reported it? There is no footnote, reference, or citation given. But Spencer uses it anyways, assuming that his opponents are simply supposed to accept it because it is “your side” saying it. No academic publication would ever accept such a spurious reference. A real scholar, whose work would regularly be subjected to scholarly critique (i.e. peer-reviewed), would never even cite like such. The number 75% is truly astronomical and beyond belief. Likewise, Spencer “backs up” his claim about the gates of ijtihad by citing REAL LIFE Muslims, as if somehow quoting from “your side” will prove his statement. For example, he says:

Then there’s this from Muslim-Canada.org:

“Thus the schools of the four Imams remain intact after a thousand years have passed, and so the ‘Ulama’ recognize since the time of these Imams no Mujtahid of the first degree. Ibn Hanbal was the last….Since their Imam Qazi Khan died (A.H. 592), no one has been recognized by the Sunnis as a Mujtahid even of the third class.”

A mujtahid is someone qualified to perform ijtihad. Ahmed ibn Hanbal died in 855 AD. Qazi Khan died in 1196.

The truth is that his claim that the gates of ijtihad are closed is bogus, because there is no real such thing as “gates of ijtihad.” It’s just a phrase used, and is not a real physical thing. Some conservative elements in the Islamic world believe that the gates of ijtihad are closed, and Spencer quotes these Muslims as “proof.” But there is no dearth of Muslims who think otherwise. The gates of ijtihad are open for whoever wants them to be open, and closed for whoever wants them to be closed. Indeed, this has always been the case, with jurists who lived hundreds of years ago engaging in ijtihad. Even the conservative Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyya firmly believed that the gates of ijtihad were open, engaged in ijtihad, and was (and is) considered a mujtahid (one who is capable of engaging in ijtihad) of the highest order by many Muslims. And he died in 1328 A.D., more than 130 years after the passing of Qazi Khan (the imam Spencer claims was the last mujtahid “even of the third class”). Even those Islamic jurists (past and present) who say they believe that the “gates of ijtihad” are closed would (and do) often engage in ijtihad but simply call it something else; others would (and do) believe that it is closed in general (i.e. on most topics) but open for other issues.

Professor H. Patrick Glenn, in his book Legal Traditions of the World (pp.203-204), wrote of the so-called “gates of ijtihad” (or “door of endeavor” as he translates it):

Of course, there never was a door, and there never was a closing (that anyone could see, or hear) but everyone can instantly seize what a closed door means. It is a silent but effective barrier, and you can never know what will be on the other side if you open it and go through. So the proponents of the closed door argue not only that God’s will has been fulfilled in existing teaching, but that the re-opening of the door would raise fundamental questions about the future direction and even identity of Islam. Yet the controversy within Islamic legal thought on this subject in the last century has been described as ‘violent.’ Some say the door should be re-opened, at least for the least precise of the Koranic injunctions; others say it is already open, or even never closed…Nobody today can say whether the shari’a, in the totality of its primary sources, is immutable.

Professor M.B. Hooker writes in his book entitledIndonesian Islam: Social Change through Contemporary Fatawa (p.232):

The gate to ijtihad was opened long ago.

Perhaps a more precise statement would be that the gate of ijtihad was opened for whoever wants to view it as opened. Conservative Muslims will view it as closed, whereas less conservative Muslims will see it as opened. Conservative Muslims who repeatedly make the claim–that “the gates of ijtihad are closed and have always been closed”–must be understood to be chastising their less conservative brethren for engaging in what they view as unacceptable modernization via ijtihad. In other words, their claim is not stating that no Muslim is engaging in ijtihad, but only that no Muslim ought to engage in it or is properly authorized to do so (according to them).

Robert Spencer’s claim that the gates of ijtihad are closed is incredibly misleading and uninformed as it is completely misses out on the entire theme of the nineteenth century of Islamic thought, which was rampant with “modernist Islamic thinkers” who demanded an unfettered “opening” of the gates of ijtihad. They not only successfully opened it, they smashed it, much to the chagrin of conservative Muslims. Professor F.E. Peters mused in his bookThe Monotheists (V.1, p.118):

Today the gate of ijtihad seems agape rather than merely ajar.

But a Muslim said otherwise! “Your own side” said so! Such silliness cannot be tolerated in academia, and it is no surprise that Spencer could not tolerate a scholarly peer-review of his work. This, then, is Spencer’s 70%, wherein he cites extremist or ultraconservative/conservative opinions and cites them as not only the most authoritative views in Islamic thought, but the only ones. Less conservative views (especially reformist interpretations) are viewed as not being “real Islam.” Once Spencer has discounted these reformist understandings of Islam, he then disingenuously laments about why Islam is not being reformed.

Moving on to the 30%, we see Spencer’s second argument, as follows:

2. The Qur’an is arranged from the longest to the shortest chapters…

Spencer claims that aside from the very first chapter (sura), “the Qur’an is indeed arranged longest chapter to shortest.” This seems like an innocuous mistake, so why should we dwell on it? Certainly it would not be worthy of a second thought, except that he is specifically berating Dinesh D’Souza for saying otherwise. Wouldn’t Spencer have simply opened up the Quran to see if it is true or not before he responded? Instead of doing this very simple task, he looks around for “Muslim sources” that “say the same thing”. He cites www.islamset.com and an article published on an oil company’s magazine (written by a random anthropologist named Geert Mommersteeg). Well, if Geert Mommersteeg the anthropologist says it, then it must be true!

The last chapter of the Quran is al-Nas, and it is 6 verses long. It is not the shortest chapter in the Quran as Spencer claims. Rather, the shortest chapter in the Quran is al-Kawthar, which is only 3 verses long. The fact that “your side” said that the last chapter is the shortest doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t. There can only be one of two possibilities: Spencer did not even open the Quran to check, in which case his “scholarship” is extremely shoddy. Or alternatively, he is guilty of academic deceit, using the “your side said it” argument to “disprove” reality. Spencer’s audience congratulates him on the fact that “he never says something of his own, but always quotes from Muslim sources.”

An even clearer proof of the 30% (and this time not an innocuous lie at all) can be seen here, where Spencer claims that the word “dhimmi” means “guilty person.” His entire chapter on “dhimmitude” used the 70/30 approach. The 70% came by quoting ultraconservative interpretations of how to treat non-Muslims, and reinforcing it by citing the views of “classical” scholars (i.e. those that diedhundreds of years ago). The 30% came by slipping in the “guilty person” fib, which Spencer hoped nobody would be astute enough to notice.

Robert Spencer is no scholar, nor is his methodology scholarly. He is a fraud, an intellectual huckster, and a sham artist. And he’s about to be exposed.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/is-robert-spencer-a-scholar/
 
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