Low Doses for Low Mortality

[Test_Subject]

So the untimely death of John Meadows really got me thinking today. He wasn’t even 50 yet and he died. He did have pre-existing health problems but it made me reconsider some of the crazy shit that I’ve done, since I’m sure that the steroids didn’t help his health conditions any.

With that in mind, I thought that I’d make a thread to share cycles that take health into consideration while also maintaining efficacy.

What has worked for you? What hasn’t? Is it even possible to cycle in a way that doesn’t negatively impact your health?

Let’s hear your opinions and experiences, Meso.

 

[NLM36]

400 test, 400 primo 2iu gh

 

[Themassterplan]

I had been thinking about the same thing recently. I don’t think I’ll be doing anything other than 400-600mg of Test ever again.

 

[NLM36]

I had been thinking about the same thing recently. I don’t think I’ll be doing anything other than 400-600mg of Test ever again.

Honestly I think up to 600mg a week can be pretty safe as long as you’re in other wise good health and stay on top of everything

 

[Mcflyfast]

I stopped cycling a couple years ago. The highest cycle I have got up to was 600mg of Bayer Testovirons and 400mg of Bayer Rimobolans.

My total test levels were just shy of 4000 with an insane free T.

When I came off that last one my body never felt the same. I did an aggressive PCT too.

2 years after, my test levels were 350ng/dl, free T was low, and Shbg was high normal.

Fast forward, doc has me now on 100mg every 5 days and I feel really good. Test levels are at 920ng and I am holding on to a good amount of muscle. Ever since I experimented with AAS, I've always had better sense of wellbeing and sex drive on true TRT.

I honestly get scared with some of the dosages I have read throughout the years on the forums.

I see more guys are shifting towards the longevity train.... Smaller doses or even TRT with an added compound here and there. I watch the TRT channel on Youtube and there is some solid info on there.

Regarding Johns case, he was very health conscious. He has been on 200mg a week of testosterone for over 6-7 years. John even openly talked about it in one of his videos reviewing his labs with his cardiologist friend. I believe it was last year he backed his dose down to 100mg a week because the specialist looking after him mention his levels were around 1400ng so he did.

The passing of John has impacted us all, no denying that. It makes you question our mortality and to most taking our health for granted.

In the video, it was also mentioned that his current cardiologist told him his ejection fraction was low and that he might need a internal defibrillator as he fell into that bracket.

If you followed John, you know his mother died of early heart complications.

I highly doubt it was the gear. I am not delusional either what the abuse of AAS can do, but after showing his labs publicly, along with a past CT scan and nuclear stress test along with sticking a camera down his throat for any blockage and all clear, its obvious he suffered from an autoimmune disorder for clotting.

He mentioned to me this happened to his colon in the past.

R.I.P Mountain Dog

 

[Megadick3000]

To be honest im a fan of shorter duration cycles using faster acting compounds.

I feel, perhaps incorrectly, that a shorter duration with a higher dosage is less harmful than a longer duration at a lower dosage. I have no evidence to support this however.

I think Bill Roberts was a fan of shorter cycles too.

I feel its also worth pointing out that generally the more mass you have the more health problems you will suffer. Studies ive read in the past for example noticed that after a certain height lifespan decreased. I believe that was 5’9” and above that height the average lifespan was shortened, with the taller you were the shorter your average lifespan. I think a similar trend would be observed regarding body mass and lifespan.

Personally speaking, the only real health problem ive ever had so far (knock on wood) associated with AAS is elevated hematocrit. However i favor shorter cycles and i dont cycle often at all compared to alot of you guys, sometimes going several years between cycles.

 

[Theworm]

Appreciate the thread @Test_Subject
I had the same thoughts this morning.

John’s life was cut short maybe 30 years and it really sucks. Makes me question what the hell im doing with 5 kids, one on the way, making a great living but also getting older (almost 43).

For me, I take a baby aspirin daily, as all of us are at risk for higher than normal hct. Also I get phlebotomy done once a month and maintain a decent blood pressure. I wish sometimes I never touched steroids and have a heathy test level but even at 29 my TT was 388 or so. I’ve tried many PCTs and all failed. I went off 4 months at age 34 and my TT was 144. So for me I think trt is needed.

As for going forward, I stay on 140 mg test a week which gets me around 800 and a high free test at 195 (35-155). But I think maybe a blast with a month of anadrol just to get some weight on, and or a 12-14 weeker of test 400 and anavar pre workout, once a year. I know I have to be smarter and I’m glad this board considers risk mitigation etc...

 

[Theworm]

So the untimely death of John Meadows really got me thinking today. He wasn’t even 50 yet and he died. He did have pre-existing health problems but it made me reconsider some of the crazy shit that I’ve done, since I’m sure that the steroids didn’t help his health conditions any.

With that in mind, I thought that I’d make a thread to share cycles that take health into consideration while also maintaining efficacy.

What has worked for you? What hasn’t? Is it even possible to cycle in a way that doesn’t negatively impact your health?

Let’s hear your opinions and experiences, Meso.

You are one of the most knowledgeable on here, what’s your plans going forward considering health but yet still adding some gains?

 

[Mcflyfast]

Appreciate the thread @Test_Subject
I had the same thoughts this morning.

John’s life was cut short maybe 30 years and it really sucks. Makes me question what the hell im doing with 5 kids, one on the way, making a great living but also getting older (almost 43).

For me, I take a baby aspirin daily, as all of us are at risk for higher than normal hct. Also I get phlebotomy done once a month and maintain a decent blood pressure. I wish sometimes I never touched steroids and have a heathy test level but even at 29 my TT was 388 or so. I’ve tried many PCTs and all failed. I went off 4 months at age 34 and my TT was 144. So for me I think trt is needed.

As for going forward, I stay on 140 mg test a week which gets me around 800 and a high free test at 195 (35-155). But I think maybe a blast with a month of anadrol just to get some weight on, and or a 12-14 weeker of test 400 and anavar pre workout, once a year. I know I have to be smarter and I’m glad this board considers risk mitigation etc...

Look into watching Victor Blacks content on Youtube. He's helped alot of guys with risk management/ harm reduction on P.E.D's.

He's always pumping out alot of fantastic science based literature.

I am going to try to get him here on Meso.

 

[Theworm]

Look into videos of Victor Black on Youtube. He's helpped alot of guys with risk management/ harm reduction with P.E.D's.

He pumps out alot of fantastic science based literature.

I am going to try to get him here on Meso.

Any take homes you can remember? That is anything profound that’s not common sense you can recall?

 

[Mcflyfast]

Any take homes you can remember? That is anything profound that’s not common sense you can recall?

Sure.

Here's one,

He did a podcast with Dr. Scott Howell on why our bodies never down regulate on high ped use, and why we should all incorporate a particular BP medicine for the prevention of cardiac remodeling on AAS use.

Alot of great solid content that I feel would benefit us if he gets on Meso.

Not sure if Dr. Scott Howell is on Meso either but if not, we need to get him on here too.

 

[muscletrain]

140mg test E, 500mg Inj. Carnitine ED, 2iu GH per day is always nice to run, had my BP checked and it came back 111/78 right before a procedure so that's always good.

If I want to get crazy these days I just bump Test tbh, I see zero reason to touch things like Tren, Deca or orals in my situation.

 

[Jet Labs]

In all honesty there's absolutely no need to go over 400mgs/week with test when blasting and if guys can't look good on that much test or 200 test/200 primo then they be doing every fucking thing wrong!

Keep doses low, stick to 2 compounds at a time, eat health, DAILY cardio always and get your fucking blood work done every 3 month!!!

That being said some of us will exit this world a lot sooner than the rest so just focus on being happy, healthy and always showing your love for family and friends. Be the absolute best person you can be and never hold back, never give up and always appreciate the struggle cause that's what keeps you humble.

R.I.P. John, you gave us all so much and never asked for anything in return. Love ya brother.

 

[Test_Subject]

You are one of the most knowledgeable on here, what’s your plans going forward considering health but yet still adding some gains?

I wouldn’t say that, but I’m definitely going to be examining minimum effective doses more closely and looking at using primo more often.

A big part is going to be tightening up my diet so I’m not taking extra drugs to compensate for eating junk food. I don’t eat a lot of it, but I could definitely cut out the potato chips. They’re my weakness.

 

[Themassterplan]

Honestly I think up to 600mg a week can be pretty safe as long as you’re in other wise good health and stay on top of everything

I was a fan of longer blasts so I once did 16 weeks of 600-750mg test(switched from 200mg/ml to 250mg/ml. 3mls a week) and my bloods came back perfectly. Liver, kidney and lipid values all came back well within range. I’m sure being younger had something to do with it so I think I’m gonna try 400mg next blast and see how perfect I can get my diet.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Look into watching Victor Blacks content on Youtube. He's helped alot of guys with risk management/ harm reduction on P.E.D's.

He's always pumping out alot of fantastic science based literature.

I am going to try to get him here on Meso.

Victor can be great but he also cherry picks things to support his specific method. Just be aware.

As far as “low mortality” goes, hard to answer..we all have an idea of what the “lower impact” drugs we are (we think) but this will always depend on genetics. Always. Some of the heaviest drug users ever in the IFBB last well into old age. Others pass at 35.

All I can hope is that people start realizing the “use less, maximize diet and training” isn’t some bullshit myself and others spew. It’s about safety and matching the tools to the goal. Would you need the extra 250mg test if you trained intensely? Would you need the tren if you didn’t skip cardio and stayed away from the chips and pizza?

 

[NLM36]

Victor can be great but he also cherry picks things to support his specific method. Just be aware.

Yes. He got called out for this on ProMuscle. He runs a paid site where everyone just takes what he says as gospel.

 

[Test_Subject]

Would you need the tren if you didn’t skip cardio and stayed away from the chips…?

I feel so attacked

 

[Mac11wildcat]

 

[Mcflyfast]

Yes. He got called out for this on ProMuscle. He runs a paid site where everyone just takes what he says as gospel.

Promuscle is the WORST site to take advice from. Alot of cons on there.... 2 of my friends caught a nasty infection with a particular lab after a mod gave a G2G from them.

I agree with @Mac11wildcat that he has some unorthodox methods of thinking "Out of the box". But isn't that what we learn from John to always evolving your thinking? If I recall, he was trying to get John on the podcast too.

I think Victor brings some good knowledge, not everyone might agree 100% with everything he has to say and that's okay, but the BP medicine use for harm reduction and other stuff he has mentioned on the podcast with Dr. Scott Howell and Dr. Scott Stevenson I can see some merit to.

And its not my business if he charges or not, though John was pumping out alot of free content, he still had a pay subscription on his site too.

I know Scott Stevenson, John Jewell, Terrance Ruffin, Ben Chow, and James Hollinshed speak very well of Victor.