Low Doses for Low Mortality

[Avnj5]

So basically just lower protein? What do shakes have to do with that? I eat 300grams of protein a day. I’ll eat the same amount protein whether I have shakes or not. How do shakes require people to eat more meals?
I don’t base my intake around the amount of meals I base my meals around my protein and calorie intake.

It’s not about protein intake. I think eating all day long 7 meals a day is a problem. Just think it will be worse for blood glucose and inflammation overall. If you have your protein from real food you will stay fuller longer and just consume less overall food and meals through the day in my experience. If you had no shakes at all I would be surprised if you still ate 300 grams a day. And it really wouldnt be necessary anyway it’s mostly in your head. But I don’t know what you weigh, maybe your 270 jacked I don’t know. Maybe you can eat that much

 

[NLM36]

It’s not about protein intake. I think eating all day long 7 meals a day is a problem. Just think it will be worse for blood glucose and inflammation overall. If you have your protein from real food you will stay fuller longer and just consume less overall food and meals through the day in my experience. If you had no shakes at all I would be surprised if you still ate 300 grams a day. And it really wouldnt be necessary anyway it’s mostly in your head. But I don’t know what you weigh, maybe your 270 jacked I don’t know. Maybe you can eat that much

I notice a difference in recovery, body composition, strength and performance the higher my protein is. It’s not all in my head. I meticulously log everything. Im 5’8 and weigh 220. If had no shakes I’d still consume the same calories and protein. By eating more often we get more stable BG levels. Not sure how you’re correlating inflammation with the amount of meals. That would depend on the food and how it effects the individual. A lot of things you’re saying don’t make sense in real world application.

 

[rfan2020]

doing cardio, having a normal BMI (aka no puff and fat) and using moderate dosages has kept by blood work and healthy

you can run the amazing "TRT dad" dose of 200mg per week and eat your way to 235 at a "lean" (according to some) 15 percent you still wont be healthy, you run low dosages but your still big and fat

 

[Avnj5]

I notice a difference in recovery, body composition, strength and performance the higher my protein is. It’s not all in my head. I meticulously log everything. Im 5’8 and weigh 220. If had no shakes I’d still consume the same calories and protein. By eating more often we get more stable BG levels. Not sure how you’re correlating inflammation with the amount of meals. That would depend on the food and how it effects the individual. A lot of things you’re saying don’t make sense in real world application.

You really think it’s more stable? Maybe, maybe not. But I’ll tell you I can go 6-7 hours no food and feel totally fine if I have too. Do you think you can or do you think you would feel very irritated and hungry. And I’m similar size. 5’11 235. And how is digesting a freshly eaten meal essentially all day long good for us? And if you had no shakes you wouldn’t have an issue to eat 3pounds plus of meat per day? Back to the point of the conversation though, At the end of the day if labs and blood pressure look great it really doesn’t matter what you run. Most of the problems we see in guys is due to blood pressure.

 

[NLM36]

You really think it’s more stable? Maybe, maybe not. But I’ll tell you I can go 6-7 hours no food and feel totally fine if I have too. Do you think you can or do you think you would feel very irritated and hungry. And I’m similar size. 5’11 235. And how is digesting a freshly eaten meal essentially all day long good for us? And if you had no shakes you wouldn’t have an issue to eat 3pounds plus of meat per day? Back to the point of the conversation though, At the end of the day if labs and blood pressure look great it really doesn’t matter what you run. Most of the problems we see in guys is due to blood pressure.

How is digesting food bad for us? Why would I want to go 6-7 hours without food? Yes eating smaller meals more consistently does lead to more stable levels. I’ve gone days where all my protein came from meat. Yes I can do it. It’s easy. I’m focusing on size and strength. My goal is never to waste time by maintaining

 

[Theworm]

Which would y’all say is healthier long term?
Trt test (140mg) plus 2-3 units hgh

Or

Trt test (140mg) plus 3-400 mg primo

The former i would worry about cancer, the latter I would worry about my hair, prostate cancer etc...

 

[Avnj5]

How is digesting food bad for us? Why would I want to go 6-7 hours without food? Yes eating smaller meals more consistently does lead to more stable levels. I’ve gone days where all my protein came from meat. Yes I can do it. It’s easy. I’m focusing on size and strength. My goal is never to waste time by maintaining

Nobody wants too, by Sometimes the situation just arises. Of course digesting food is not bad for us but constantly for all waking hours ? You think it’s good to have insulin working all day? That’s how the high blood sugars and inflammation are caused.

 

[EazyE]

Appreciate the thread @Test_Subject
I had the same thoughts this morning.

John’s life was cut short maybe 30 years and it really sucks. Makes me question what the hell im doing with 5 kids, one on the way, making a great living but also getting older (almost 43).

For me, I take a baby aspirin daily, as all of us are at risk for higher than normal hct. Also I get phlebotomy done once a month and maintain a decent blood pressure. I wish sometimes I never touched steroids and have a heathy test level but even at 29 my TT was 388 or so. I’ve tried many PCTs and all failed. I went off 4 months at age 34 and my TT was 144. So for me I think trt is needed.

As for going forward, I stay on 140 mg test a week which gets me around 800 and a high free test at 195 (35-155). But I think maybe a blast with a month of anadrol just to get some weight on, and or a 12-14 weeker of test 400 and anavar pre workout, once a year. I know I have to be smarter and I’m glad this board considers risk mitigation etc...

Your approach is sensible. Good plan.

 

[Mcflyfast]

Which would y’all say is healthier long term?
Trt test (140mg) plus 2-3 units hgh

Or

Trt test (140mg) plus 3-400 mg primo

The former i would worry about cancer, the latter I would worry about my hair, prostate cancer etc...

The tri test with the 2-3i.u of HGH.

But why a Tri test, why not one ester to control your levels? Like a cypionate or enanathate if your goal is longterm.

Though I won't use HGH, if you are concerned about cancer, I would stick with just testosterone and some Metformin to keep IGF1 levels lower.... (I do this) but my goal is to have balance.

If your goal is more muscle building, some low test and GH in therapeutic levels can yield in a pretty kick ass physique.

 

[EazyE]

I remember reading that John was using 300mg per week as his HrT. Obviously o cannot prove it.

Personally, I know I feel my best on 175mg of testosterone u a week. it’s not low, by any means. So it’s definately not my lowest viable dose.

Not that it matters but I would speculate that earlier in his career John would have used deca . While relatively safe overall, For those with pre-existing heart conditions deca can damage the heart and arteries considerably more so than some other AAS. And maybe AAS didn’t contribute to health problems for him. Just playing devils advocate here. At any rate that ultimately doesn’t matter now. RIP John.

 

[Mcflyfast]

Not that it matters but I would speculate that earlier in his career John would have used deca . While relatively safe overall, For those with pre-existing heart conditions deca can damage the heart and arteries considerably more so than some other AAS. And maybe AAS didn’t contribute to health problems for him. Just playing devils advocate here. At any rate that ultimately doesn’t matter now. RIP John.

He has.

He openly talked about using pharma grade Pakistan Organon Deca Durabolin amps back in the day and discontinued it later in life as they didn't make him feel good anymore.

The doses he took and such wasn't mentioned though.

I doubt it was much if any.

 

[EazyE]

For me a very basic and “safe” cycle is
250 test / 5 days
200 mast / wk

Feel great with reasonable results. Most importantly health markets come back good. However, that should be monitored regularly as that can change over time.

 

[cochino]

doing cardio, having a normal BMI (aka no puff and fat) and using moderate dosages has kept by blood work and healthy

you can run the amazing "TRT dad" dose of 200mg per week and eat your way to 235 at a "lean" (according to some) 15 percent you still wont be healthy, you run low dosages but your still big and fat

What makes you say a person (male) won't be healthy at 15% bodyfat?

 

[NLM36]

What makes you say a person (male) won't be healthy at 15% bodyfat?

Was wondering the samething. You can be up to 20% and still be healthy.

 

[Test_Subject]

What makes you say a person (male) won't be healthy at 15% bodyfat?

Was wondering the samething. You can be up to 20% and still be healthy.

He’s obsessed with the twinky-lean “why do you even use steroids?” look and running low test cycles to not get “fat”.

Test actually increases fat loss, but hey, who needs actual biological science when you have Youtube?

 

[NLM36]

Nobody wants too, by Sometimes the situation just arises. Of course digesting food is not bad for us but constantly for all waking hours ? You think it’s good to have insulin working all day? That’s how the high blood sugars and inflammation are caused.

So if I’m eating 300carbs a day you think it makes a difference for health if I eat in 3 meals vs 6? That’s how high blood sugar is caused? Also explain to me how meal frequency has anything to do with inflammation?

 

[Silentlemon1011]

So if I’m eating 300carbs a day you think it makes a difference for health if I eat in 3 meals vs 6? That’s how high blood sugar is caused? Also explain to me how meal frequency has anything to do with inflammation?

It definitly would
If you had high BG
But obviously if you monitor and know what you're doing, it's a moot point

Like saying "Carbs are bad"
Yes, for a scooter bound tool... yes, they should cut down on carbs.

I have issues with any DEFINITE statement, there is nuance to EVERYTHING,
Shit is more complex than simple statements, so I disagree with them overall.

 

[NLM36]

doing cardio, having a normal BMI (aka no puff and fat) and using moderate dosages has kept by blood work and healthy

you can run the amazing "TRT dad" dose of 200mg per week and eat your way to 235 at a "lean" (according to some) 15 percent you still wont be healthy, you run low dosages but your still big and fat

15% is big and fat? Hell I feel best and strongest at around 12-15 and there’s no negative effects on my health markers.

 

[Test_Subject]

15% is big and fat? Hell I feel best and strongest at around 12-15 and there’s no negative effects on my health markers.

People’s perception of body fat percentages are all fucked up. You can basically add 2-3% to whatever people think they are.

The scrawny dudes with their collar bones popping out and shit bragging about being 8% fucking kill me. It’s not hard to be lean when you’re carrying no appreciable muscle mass — you just don’t eat.

 

[EazyE]

People’s perception of body fat percentages are all fucked up. You can basically add 2-3% to whatever people think they are.

The scrawny dudes with their collar bones popping out and shit bragging about being 8% fucking kill me. It’s not hard to be lean when you’re carrying no appreciable muscle mass — you just don’t eat.

Exactly. Years ago I got my BF% down to between 8-9% and that is extreme. If you want to be cut like Andreas Munzer or Momo years back (RIP both of them) where they achieved likely 4-5% that was an unrealistic look that most people could not and should not strive to achieve. It doesn’t even really look healthy. You don’t feel good when the body is depleted like that. I would rather be at 245 lbs at 10-12% BF. That’s a nice balance of mass and body composition for me. But agree that you gotta have some mass to cut up a bit.