Low Doses for Low Mortality

[OmL]

I remember reading that John was using 300mg per week as his HrT. Obviously o cannot prove it.

Personally, I know I feel my best on 175mg of testosterone u a week. it’s not low, by any means. So it’s definately not my lowest viable dose.

 

[NLM36]

Promuscle is the WORST site to take advice from. Alot of cons on there.... 2 of my friends caught a nasty infection with a particular lab after a mod gave a G2G from them.

I agree with @Mac11wildcat that he has some unorthodox methods of thinking "Out of the box". But isn't that what we learn from John to always evolving your thinking? If I recall, he was trying to get John on the podcast too.

I think Victor brings some good knowledge, not everyone might agree 100% with everything he has to say and that's okay, but the BP medicine use for harm reduction and other stuff he has mentioned on the podcast with Dr. Scott Howell and Dr. Scott Stevenson I can see some merit to.

And its not my business if he charges or not, though John was pumping out alot of free content, he still had a pay subscription on his site too.

I know Scott Stevenson, John Jewell, Terrance Ruffin, Ben Chow, and James Hollinshed speak very well of Victor.

ProMuscle has a lot of very smart guys there. It’s probably one of the best places to get info from. Even Meadows would post there from time to time. They have some shit sources, but as far as info about drugs, training, diet etc. There’s endless good information.
Victor Black claims that EQ is probably the most toxic steroid, that’s bullshit abs that was one of the many things he got called out for. Your friend was an idiot for trusting a g2g from mods on a paid source board

 

[Avnj5]

Although is he a fear mongerer, the anabolic doc spoke about bp meds, ARBs, tadalafil, bystolic etc 10 years ago maybe more. But these new guys get the credit. These tools can mitigate a lot of the damage done by heavy usage. That being said. Most guys here should be able to look great on Amounts/compounds that don’t impact health so much by doing 3/400 mg of test. Maybe some primo or low amount of deca once In A while. And spending a majority of time on trt at whatever dose is individually needed to achieve the desired level. In My experience test alone at doses between 200-300 doesn’t reduce the hdl since the estrogen keeps it high and as long as you do cardio and eat well so your not too heavy there is no reason to have elevated bp u less genetics cause otherwise. In that case look at meds listed above.

 

[Mcflyfast]

ProMuscle has a lot of very smart guys there. It’s probably one of the best places to get info from. Even Meadows would post there from time to time. They have some shit sources, but as far as info about drugs, training, diet etc. There’s endless good information.
Victor Black claims that EQ is probably the most toxic steroid, that’s bullshit abs that was one of the many things he got called out for. Your friend was an idiot for trusting a g2g from mods on a paid source board

Did you see the last time John has posted on there?

I disagree, Meso has the best info period... Show me another forum that is free based, members that post HPLC lab analysis to help one another, and prevention of scamming from all looking after eachother.

And so you know, EQ does carry toxicity effects on the kidneys and stomach bowels. Don't be delusional. When I use to run it in the past I had horrible stomach issues and literally IBS/Chron like symptoms. The minute I pulled it out it started to subside after a couple weeks.

Following, years later I stumbled across a video O Connor did on Equipoise and his patients having the EXACT issues along with kidney damage (FSGS) from the high red blood cells.

Here is a video of Dr. Thomas O Connor talking about it too.

https://youtu.be/dy3guBAFSjk

If my friend was an idiot, then so was I, because 12 years ago when I got into bodybuilding Promuscle was the "Hype board for information" and many others and I followed and listen to the retard members who were suggesting that this one source that was on there for many years (OUS) Our Unknown Secret was legitimate and guess what? they scammed me for $600 and never sent me my Pakistan Organon Sustanons.

M4B same shit, big source on Promuscle selling replica Polish Omnadrens/Prolongatum (And still do).

Fuck I am old lol

When I address this later to a mod they told me they will handle it and did NOTHING....

From there I never went on that site again and started making my own informed decisions.

Fuck ProMuscle.

And if they are soo good with information, then why are you choosing to be on Meso and not there?

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Although is he a fear mongerer, the anabolic doc spoke about bp meds, ARBs, tadalafil, bystolic etc 10 years ago maybe more. But these new guys get the credit. These tools can mitigate a lot of the damage done by heavy usage. That being said. Most guys here should be able to look great on Amounts/compounds that don’t impact health so much by doing 3/400 mg of test. Maybe some primo or low amount of deca once In A while. And spending a majority of time on trt at whatever dose is individually needed to achieve the desired level. In My experience test alone at doses between 200-300 doesn’t reduce the hdl since the estrogen keeps it high and as long as you do cardio and eat well so your not too heavy there is no reason to have elevated bp u less genetics cause otherwise. In that case look at meds listed above.

I stay within reference range on 200mg Test U on cruise.

My rule is keep it below a gram total on blasts
Was about to run a larger cycle in October, but now I'm rethinking a little bit

 

[NLM36]

Did you see the last time John has posted on there?

I disagree, Meso has the best info period... Show me another forum that is free based, members that post HPLC lab analysis to help one another, and prevention of scamming from all looking after eachother.

And so you know, EQ does carry toxicity effects on the kidneys and stomach bowels. Don't be delusional. When I use to run it in the past I had horrible stomach issues and literally IBS/Chron like symptoms. The minute I pulled it out it started to subside after a couple weeks.

Following, years later I stumbled across a video O Connor did on Equipoise and his patients having the EXACT issues along with kidney damage (FSGS) from the high red blood cells.

Here is a video of Dr. Thomas O Connor talking about it too.

https://youtu.be/dy3guBAFSjk

If my friend was an idiot, then so am I, because I followed and listen to the retard members who were telling me that this one source that was on there for many years (OUS) Our Unknown Secret was legitimate and guess what? they scammed me for $600 and never sent me my Pakistan Organon Sustanons.

When I address this later to a mod they told me they will handle it and did NOTHING....

From there I never went on that site again and started making my own informed decisions.

Fuck ProMuscle.

And if they are soo good with information, why are you choosing to be on Meso and not there?

Yep you’re both idiots. Scott Stevenson and Dante Trudel both post over there and recently.
There’s better info here about which sources to not use but, as far as training and diet that place is filled with experts.
im here because I like this board and I’m a member of a few boards. I got banned from there for being condescending. The fact that I got banned doesn’t negate the fact that there’s more good information geared towards bodybuilding there than probably anywhere on the web.
Ive said before I wouldn’t trust that site or any where for sources that is a paid source board.
John posted there a few months ago actually.
Your buddy Victor was saying tren is healthier than EQ and even suggested tren as part of trt. I’m not saying EQ is healthy but it’s not the most harmful aas. I’ve never had it negatively effect blood work. I’ve had tren at 200mg a week screw with my cholesterol and my liver values.
I had a problem with a source there but unlike you and your dumbass friend, the mods suprisingly did step in and handle it.

 

[Avnj5]

I stay within reference range on 200mg Test U on cruise.

My rule is keep it below a gram total on blasts
Was about to run a larger cycle in October, but now I'm rethinking a little bit

Depends on what you run. Total milligrams or not. 100 mg primo doesn’t act the same way as 100 mg of tren ace. For example you can see studies of 600 mg a week test not doing much harm but 6 mg a day of winstrol is doing harm.

 

[Mcflyfast]

Yep you’re both idiots. Scott Stevenson and Dante Trudel both post over there and recently.
There’s better info here about which sources to not use but, as far as training and diet that place is filled with experts.
im here because I like this board and I’m a member of a few boards. I got banned from there for being condescending. The fact that I got banned doesn’t negate the fact that there’s more good information geared towards bodybuilding there than probably anywhere on the web.
Ive said before I wouldn’t trust that site or any where for sources that is a paid source board.
John posted there a few months ago actually.
Your buddy Victor was saying tren is healthier than EQ and even suggested tren as part of trt. I’m not saying EQ is healthy but it’s not the most harmful aas. I’ve never had it negatively effect blood work. I’ve had tren at 200mg a week screw with my cholesterol and my liver values.

Dante Trudel is the biggest scam artist LOL......... So you look up to someone who gives medical advice and pushes his supplement line of products and avoiding the doctor when you are having Kidney issues as he informs his puppets his products will help you.... LOL

Same for Palumbo...... "Kidney Stuff" LOL

Scott Stevenson is an exception, I met Scott several times at my gym and he is actually a very nice gentleman. He was a professor in Texas before he retired.

Yeah your "experts" at that time many pros were sending messages for coaching and pricelist of there fees when you would ask questions about diet or training. GTFOH...


I never seen anything with Victor mentioning that Tren is safer than EQ..... Can you post it for us?

Yeah, just because you never had issues with EQ doesn't mean people like me and many others haven't.

So you got banned......... LOL

I can't lmao

 

[NLM36]

Dante Trudel is the biggest scam artist LOL......... So you look up to someone who rather tell you to use his supplement line and avoid the doctor?

Scott Stevenson is an exception, I met Scott several times at my gym and he is actually a very nice gentleman. He was a professor in Texas before he retired.

Yeah your "experts" at that time were sending messages for coaching and pricelist of there fees when you would ask questions about diet or training. GTFOH...

I never seen anything with Victor mentioning that Tren is safer than EQ..... Can you post it?

Yeah, just because you never had issues with EQ doesn't mean people like me and many others haven't.

So you got banned......... LOL

I can't lmao

Dante Trudel? I know you’re full of shit. Stay off the Leo Rex dick there guy. Leo is someone that got called out for all his bullshit and ran off.
Who has he scammed?

EQ is not the most harmful aas.
You’re lying about them sending you price lists as well. Which members were doing this?
can you name atleast 3? Lol.
you can’t.

You and your dumb friend huh

 

[Mcflyfast]

Dante Trudel? I know you’re full of shit. Stay off the Leo Rex dick there guy. Leo is someone that got called out for all his bullshit and ran off.
Who has he scammed?

EQ is not the most harmful aas.
You’re lying about them sending you price lists as well. Which members were doing this?
can you name atleast 3? Lol.
you can’t.

You and your dumb friend huh

LEO is a clown too GTFOH with that guy.

Ummmm no I am not..... This was at the time right before Matt Porters passing. Pushing his Astragulus product.

I am lying? LOL

Are you hurt because I am telling the truth and you can't accept it?

Sure,

Phil Hernon
Mike Quinn
Don Long

And I just did!

Oh, was it Don Long who got arrested not long ago for selling shit UGL gear to his clients and stealing there money for coaching?

Smh

 

[NLM36]

LEO is a clown too GTFOH with that guy.

Ummmm no I am not..... This was at the time right before Matt Porters passing. Pushing his Astragulus product.

I am lying? LOL

Are you hurt because I am telling the truth and you can't accept it?

Sure,

Phil Hernon
Brad Davis
Don Long

And I just did!

Smh

you’re just pulling names out of your ass.
I actually worked with Phil best $500 for a year I ever spent.
Phil was a scammer though, I won’t debt that. I never bought anything he pushed. But the info I gained from working with him is priceless.
have you seen the blood work that improved with Dante’s protocols using astragulus?
I’m pretty sure the 3 names you mentioned are banned from there though
yep, you and your retarded friend.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

John Meadows once told me “if you have issues with Tren, dont force your body…maybe switch to Masteron”

i tried doing 2 weeks on 175mg tren ace and prolonged to 3 weeks to synch it with my insulin pre wo schedule 1 week on 1 week off…

i got sides at the end of the 3rd week, I dropped it and sides went away after 3 days… as i stated on a specific post… but I knew that if i had insurmountables sides with tren i would have switched to Masteron.. because the force would have been on my side, thinking at Luke “JM” Skywalker ..

Some weeks ago i developed my new own drug schedule… just swapped the compounds i used in my first successful recomp with all primo 800mg week (that was into that stack) , test prop not more than 500 per week , tren ace 175mg 3 week on 1 week off, and during week off i m doing 75mg oxandrolone ED during wo days… 5iu HGH… some health supplements, i m fine with that… not a crazy amount… would stick with that…

btw, this girl has been recently prepped by John.. and won a nice show…



some more size on arms, some more size on delts, less gyno, and its perfect for my taste… as a male body… without bra and that feminine face

 

[Mcflyfast]

you’re just pulling names out of your ass.
I actually worked with Phil best $500 for a year I ever spent.
Phil was a scammer though, I won’t debt that. I never bought anything he pushed. But the info I gained from working with him is priceless.
have you seen the blood work that improved with Dante’s protocols using astragulus?
I’m pretty sure the 3 names you mentioned are banned from there though
yep, you and your retarded friend.

Pulled names out my ass? LOL

Yes all banned (Wonder why)

The only retard I see is you for getting banned on possibly the hardest sites

I wouldn't be proud of that lmao

Yes, I was new and got scammed, you learn quick peoples motives. My friend and his buddy the same by getting sick from a lab a mod by Rajjin kept pushing to everyone which is still on there.

Can you post what Victor black said about Tren being safer than EQ?

 

[NLM36]

Pulled names out my ass? LOL

Yes all banned

The only retard I see is you for getting banned on possibly the hardest sites lol

Hard to get banned from there? Not at all unless you’re a mod or paying source.
They’ll ban you firtalking politics, being condescending, etc.
I’m not the one that along with my dumbass friend got an infection because a mod told me a source on source board was good to go.

Go suckle on Vic Blacks cherry picked knowledge based on rat studies.

 

[Mcflyfast]

Depends on what you run. Total milligrams or not. 100 mg primo doesn’t act the same way as 100 mg of tren ace. For example you can see studies of 600 mg a week test not doing much harm but 6 mg a day of winstrol is doing harm.

Dr. Rand on JayCutler Tv did a video on a Asia study with men who ran 500-600mg of testosterone for a couple years straight. They had some impact on their HDL and a increase on their LDL but not much.

He mentioned that he would not advise doing this, but there literature on Human studies and to two biggest factors to look out for is Lipids, and Hemoglobin/Hematocrit.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Every steroid user should be taking an ARB (angiotensin II receptor blocker). Every. Single. One. They reverse LVH, improve kidney function, and can lower HCT. Unless you have low BP—and that’s not 99% of gear users—they are the most important tool for longevity that exists.

Every serious, long term steroid user should be monitoring blood glucose. Damage from eating like a maniac during a bulk isn’t a big deal, but if you’re bulking half the year, every year for a decade straight? Plus using hepatotoxic drugs and maybe some GH here and there? You could be perpetually in a state of pre-diabetes. Maybe you’ll never go full blown T2D, but if you’re close to it for a long time it’s effectively the same thing as far as your brain is concerned. Want to know what a lot of clinicians call Alzheimer’s disease? Type III diabetes.

And for you tren users you better pay even closer attention to BG and insulin resistance, because tren is neurotoxic all on its own. Add in years of torching your brain with blood that’s soaked in sugar and you get beta amyloid buildup, which blocks signals from neurons to one another. You’ll be the most jacked guy who can’t remember his kids’ names. Take care of your brain, dudes.

 

[effiffoff]

I had been thinking about the same thing recently. I don’t think I’ll be doing anything other than 400-600mg of Test ever again.

There was some study showing how test alone can shut down collagen synthesis. So probably not the best for longevity unless you use HGH 2-3IU. More than that and you probably cut your lifespan by having high IGF1 levels.

Adding secondary steroids for this reason I would add either var or primo. Anavar can be bad on kidneys as well as rape lipids. Primo has not much drawback except the price tag- even home brewed.
EQ is good on joints but will thicken up blood (not good for mortality). Nandrolone is very bad on arteries according to some studies + mental sides can be not worth it.

The safest bet is probably 300-500mg test + 2-3 IU HGH. Adding too much mass will never be good for longevity.

 

[Avnj5]

Dr. Rand on JayCutler Tv did a video on a Asia study with men who ran 500-600mg of testosterone for a couple years straight. They had some impact on their HDL and a increase on their LDL but not much.

He mentioned that he would not advise doing this, but there literature on Human studies and to two biggest factors to look out for is Lipids, and Hemoglobin/Hematocrit.

It’s not even necessary to run that much. If you just did enough test to get your levels around 1300-1600 and did nothing else plus you trained with heavy enough weights and ate well you would grow a lot of muscle and most likely have no negatives. Those levels would not affect lipids much of at all. Actually makes mine better.

 

[Test_Subject]

As I posted this thread, I’m running 850 test a week and 100 mg of anavar, but I think that this will be my last large blast and my last run with orals.

I think next will be 250 test and 400 primo. I’ve read that primo is well tolerated up to 1.2-1.3 grams with very little change in bloodwork, so a third of that should be relatively safe, and the cycle will not require any AI, which is a whole added level of “bad for you.”

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Depends on what you run. Total milligrams or not. 100 mg primo doesn’t act the same way as 100 mg of tren ace. For example you can see studies of 600 mg a week test not doing much harm but 6 mg a day of winstrol is doing harm.

For the most part just Test and Primo
Was going to add 175mg Tren for final 4 weeks to sharpen up, but I'm cancelling that now.