Low Doses for Low Mortality

[Mcflyfast]

It’s not even necessary to run that much. If you just did enough test to get your levels around 1300-1600 and did nothing else plus you trained with heavy enough weights and ate well you would grow a lot of muscle and most likely have no negatives. Those levels would not affect lipids much of at all. Actually makes mine better.

100% agree I am happy on 100mg every 5 days. I could go up to 150mg and put me right at 1200-1250ng/dl but I don't want my labs to get flagged and insurance to stop paying lol.

If you don't grow on 1300-1600ng/dl of test considering you are training hard and eating well then I don't know. Those numbers are literally double what you produce naturally.

Alot of guys down play the power of TRT. You can really look fucking awesome with your levels over 1000+

You won't look like a probodybuilder, but you will deff look much better than 90% of most people in your gym lol.

Considering of course your nutrition is dialed in and you are training frequently.

 

[Mcflyfast]

As I posted this thread, I’m running 850 test a week and 100 mg of anavar, but I think that this will be my last large blast and my last run with orals.

I think next will be 250 test and 400 primo. I’ve read that primo is well tolerated up to 1.2-1.3 grams with very little change in bloodwork, so a third of that should be relatively safe, and the cycle will not require any AI, which is a whole added level of “bad for you.”

400mg of Primo gave me such a sick look in roundness and body comp. I wasn't bloated, and I felt sooo good. Like an incredible sense of well being. I love that everyweek you see slow steady changes on it.

Labs didn't shift either. Hair however slowly started to thin out but went away as soon as I stopped.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Longevity has a lot to do with when you started doing this. There is a big difference between:

Guy A that starts at 28 years old that stops when he's in his mid-30s
Guy B that starts at 28 years old and blasts into his 50s
Guy C that starts in his 40s and stops when he's 50

I'm in the Guy C category but I absolutely realize that Guy A probably has it the best as far as being able to run steroids without much risk. Guy B is absolutely fucked.

But these are the decisions we all make. You can get hit by a car in your mid-30s too and that happens 100s of times every day. Nobody questions driving again.

The end game is 200 mg of Test, 200-300 mg of Primo and 2 iu of growth hormone. But I don't want to live past 80 anyway and die alone in a nursing home with dementia and a nurse that cusses at me because I shit my pants again. I'll load a barbell heavy and rest it on my chest before I ever go to a nursing home. They keep you alive just enough to drain the bank account.

I'll date myself with the quote but fuck it: "If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love."

 

[Avnj5]

100% agree I am happy on 100mg every 5 days. I could go up to 150mg and put me right at 1200-1250ng/dl but I don't want my labs to get flagged and insurance to stop paying lol.

If you don't grow on 1300-1600ng/dl of test considering you are training hard and eating well then I don't know. Those numbers are literally double what you produce naturally.

Alot of guys down play the power of TRT. You can really look fucking awesome with your levels over 1000+

You won't look like a probodybuilder, but you will deff look much better than 90% of most people in your gym lol.

Considering of course your nutrition is dialed in and you are training frequently.

A lot of guys don’t know how good they could look because they never tried to run that type of protocol. But a good solid test level and training with lots of barbells and dumbells and not hammer machines and bullshit would make a great physique. I think we are leaving out the affects of the 6 meal a day bodybuilding diet. Proba not good in the long run and guys eat too much especially the shakes. Just eating a 4 solid meals a day of real food sometimes 3 even is plenty.

 

[NLM36]

A lot of guys don’t know how good they could look because they never tried to run that type of protocol. But a good solid test level and training with lots of barbells and dumbells and not hammer machines and bullshit would make a great physique. I think we are leaving out the affects of the 6 meal a day bodybuilding diet. Proba not good in the long run and guys eat too much especially the shakes. Just eating a 4 solid meals a day of real food sometimes 3 even is plenty.

The shakes?

 

[Mcflyfast]

A lot of guys don’t know how good they could look because they never tried to run that type of protocol. But a good solid test level and training with lots of barbells and dumbells and not hammer machines and bullshit would make a great physique. I think we are leaving out the affects of the 6 meal a day bodybuilding diet. Proba not good in the long run and guys eat too much especially the shakes. Just eating a 4 solid meals a day of real food sometimes 3 even is plenty.

Agree 100% with everything you said.

Today I am doing 3 solid meals and 2 shakes. My liquid meals consist of oats, wild blueberries, raw cashew butter, and a plantbase vanilla protein powder. I stay away from dairy as it doesn't sit well with me at all.

I get a total of 2450 calories a day.

I do 2 high carb days/ 1 medium day and repeat.

Every weekend I have a burger/fries and some Ben and Jerrys for a cheat meal with my wife. (Its our thing).

I might not have that roundness I did on higher AAS/Primo use, but this balance is perfect. My labs are excellent, incredible sexdrive, great sense of well being, and I am still building muscle (Just much slower lol).

Understand when you use high dose AAS. You are trading one thing for another. Your overall health for vanity.

Genetics will dictate how much and how long your body can handle the abuse.

Current look

 

[justanoob]

Dr. Rand on JayCutler Tv did a video on a Asia study with men who ran 500-600mg of testosterone for a couple years straight. They had some impact on their HDL and a increase on their LDL but not much.

He mentioned that he would not advise doing this, but there literature on Human studies and to two biggest factors to look out for is Lipids, and Hemoglobin/Hematocrit.

They were running 5-600mg a week straight for a few years? Any chance you can post the link to this video?

I’ve seen guys post bloods and updates after being on 500mg test for a year or two and assuming they were telling the truth about dosage, their bloods were fine.

i know that’s not the whole picture, but this stuff always interest me.

 

[justanoob]

The end game is 200 mg of Test, 200-300 mg of Primo

This is my long term goal as well. For the average person how well do you think this long term “cruise” would be tolerated?

No rec drugs, no drinking. Routine blood work. Eating healthy, minimum of 30 minutes LISS daily, and taking all the recommended health supplement?

 

[Mcflyfast]

They were running 5-600mg a week straight for a few years? Any chance you can post the link to this video?

I’ve seen guys post bloods and updates after being on 500mg test for a year or two and assuming they were telling the truth about dosage, their bloods were fine.

i know that’s not the whole picture, but this stuff always interest me.

I don't doubt it.

Here was mine 6 months in on 2 amps 500mg of Bayer Testovirons.

I think if I would of increased my fats a bit more to 70-80g total a day I could of got that HDL a tad higher. I was on 50g total as I was recomping.

I could of added Citrus Bergamont and probably do the trick but its the past now lol.

I now do some low intensity steady state cardio everyday just for overall heart health. Plus, it boosts HDL numbers.

My doctor also prescribed me Vascepa. So I know my numbers are pretty damn good now.

Testosterone cycles in my opinion (Aside from low dose Primo) do the least amount of havoc on your labs.

 

[dennia]

Another factor that you should consider is the overall weight you have. To live longer and have +80-100 pounds over your normal weight is not going hand in hand.
If you go for a beach body,bikini body or don't know what category are now in some shows then that will help with living longer and is not required to use a high dose or more harmful substances and neither the lifestyle is not dangerous for health.
I say go with test and primo,do the cardio,eat a good diet not a bodybuilding diet and that should be enough for a beach body and not die in your sleep from a stroke.

 

[justanoob]

I don't doubt it.

Here was mine 6 months in on 2 amps 500mg of Bayer Testovirons.

I think if I would of increased my fats a bit more to 70-80g total a day I could of got that HDL a tad higher. I was on 50g total as I was recomping.

I could of added Citrus Bergamont and probably do the trick but its the past now lol.

I now do some low intensity steady state cardio everyday just for overall heart health. Plus, it boosts HDL numbers.

Testosterone cycles in my opinion (Aside from low dose Primo) do the least amount of havoc on your labs.

Did you do anything special to keep hematocrit in range? My hematocrit always creeps up. Aside from that, Test has always been easy on my bloods as well.

i don’t compete, so I have no use for tren, or harsh orals. But unfortunately I have a love for running NPP in the 5-600mg a week range, which is by far the worst thing i do. My plan is after finishing this cycle, to stick to Test + Primo, whether I’m cruising or blasting. Maybe Anavar, but that would be it. I don’t want an early grave, and seeing someone like John pass, who was so health conscious and knowledgeable really fucked me up.

 

[Mcflyfast]

Another factor that you should consider is the overall weight you have. To live longer and have +80-100 pounds over your normal weight is not going hand in hand.
If you go for a beach body,bikini body or don't know what category are now in some shows then that will help with living longer and is not required to use a high dose or more harmful substances and neither the lifestyle is not dangerous for health.
I say go with test and primo,do the cardio,eat a good diet not a bodybuilding diet and that should be enough for a beach body and not die in your sleep from a stroke.

Weight plays a HUGE factor. You can't be 230lbs lean at 5'5 no matter how perfect your health is and not expect any ramifications. This goes for ANYBODY.

Remember, big dogs don't live long.

 

[Mcflyfast]

Did you do anything special to keep hematocrit in range? My hematocrit always creeps up. Aside from that, Test has always been easy on my bloods as well.

i don’t compete, so I have no use for tren, or harsh orals. But unfortunately I have a love for running NPP in the 5-600mg a week range, which is by far the worst thing i do. My plan is after finishing this cycle, to stick to Test + Primo, whether I’m cruising or blasting. Maybe Anavar, but that would be it. I don’t want an early grave, and seeing someone like John pass, who was so health conscious and knowledgeable really fucked me up.

No, I do nothing. I don't eat red meat either. Just chicken, Turkey, eggwhites in small quantities. Maybe 4oz a meal.

I honestly stick with testosterone. Its just the easiest compound to manage. If you feel you want to "step it up" primo is your next bet.

Keep doses low.

Please understand what happen to John was out of his control. Yes, it has affected us all. Tbh, i had alot of friends die and some alive and sick which stray me away from bodybuilding now. I live the lifestyle and I love it but I don't push it.

What happen to John was a very specific genetic condition but still, you NEED to always take care of your health. No one is immortal.

 

[dennia]

Weight plays a HUGE factor. You can't be 230lbs lean at 5'5 no matter how perfect your health is and not expect any ramifications. This goes for ANYBODY.

Remember, Big dogs don't live long.

Probably the weight you have should be the first priority if you are looking for longevity.
Having a normal weight doesn't require using 2,3,4,5g neither harsher substances.

But with that being said I have seen people who had died before 50s without using steroids in their life,haven't known to have any disease. They went to sleep and never wake up. When your time is to go you will go but try to reduce the harm if you have family who rely on you.

 

[Avnj5]

The shakes?

Yes the protein shakes. If you eliminate them and eat whole food only you won’t have the need to eat 6 meals a day.

 

[dennia]

Yes the protein shakes. If you eliminate them and eat whole food only you won’t have the need to eat 6 meals a day.

Not at all. There is no need to have 6 meals or 5 or 4. There is need of nutrients to be met to achieve one goal.
If you eliminate shakes you need to eat protein from a protein source and at one point is getting difficult that or inconvenient.
I don't see any connection between eliminate protein shakes and not die from steroids abuse or a need for 6 meals with or without shakes

 

[NLM36]

Yes the protein shakes. If you eliminate them and eat whole food only you won’t have the need to eat 6 meals a day.

So basically just lower protein? What do shakes have to do with that? I eat 300grams of protein a day. I’ll eat the same amount protein whether I have shakes or not. How do shakes require people to eat more meals?
I don’t base my intake around the amount of meals I base my meals around my protein and calorie intake.

 

[Demondosage]

Meadows didn't die from gear, he died from genetics. This dude has had a myriad of genetic fucks over the years, it's unfortunate. I doubt he was even using that much the past few years

 

[Test_Subject]

Meadows didn't die from gear, he died from genetics. This dude has had a myriad of genetic fucks over the years, it's unfortunate. I doubt he was even using that much the past few years

No I know. He died from an inherited condition. He wasn’t like McCarver (also RIP) who went YOLO and paid for it.

I know that Meadows was more responsible, but he still competed at a high level when he was younger. I’m sure that didn’t help.

 

[dennia]

No I know. He died from an inherited condition. He wasn’t like McCarver (also RIP) who went YOLO and paid for it.

I know that Meadows was more responsible, but he still competed at a high level when he was younger. I’m sure that didn’t help.

Dallas also had some problems at heart genetic from what I have read back then but don't know anything new as I didn't follow the subject