Private Sources and Why They Aren't the Answer

[rrippenstuff]

I hate to say it but I agree. If a public source makes a mistake he gets it brought to the publics attention. If I priv source made a bad batch or mistake know one will know . And nothing can be done .
Great post @CensoredBoardsSuck

Maybe even 11/11.

I do believe established sources are less likely to step on the raws. However the chance of getting better than 90% raws from the Chinese is still slim to none. But I think you agree with that too.

And I also agree that IFBB pros will use UGL drugs when a pharm grade option is unavailable.

 

[Ironwill1999]

Good stuff!

 

[RingMeister01]

I would prefer a private source but how do you find one? I don't seem to be in any circle with the possibility of an introduction. Talking parma grade.

 

[jaymaximus]

I would prefer a private source but how do you find one? I don't seem to be in any circle with the possibility of an introduction. Talking parma grade.

You asked this question in a thread about why private sources are NOT the answer?

To answer you, you DONT find a private source. A private source finds you.*

*and if you get some PMs on here, they are probably not the answer (that was my good deed for this month)

 

[ironwill1951]

I know a lot of the customers of my private source if we get something bad we do let each other know. and no one else needs to know . an example when u.p. started making bad gear it wasn't long before their customers knew, and a short time later the public knew .

I hate to say it but I agree. If a public source makes a mistake he gets it brought to the publics attention. If I priv source made a bad batch or mistake know one will know . And nothing can be done .
Great post @CensoredBoardsSuck

 

[anabolicmd]

There's been a lot of interest in private sources lately, especially from new members who believe private sources have something public sources don't. The belief that private sources produce higher quality products because they have special access to the best Chinese raw steroid powder suppliers is widespread, but unsupported. And the truth is, nothing could be further from the truth. But people tend to want that which they cannot have. Believing the grass is always greener on the other side is human nature.

When Stretch started Biologic, he used the brilliant marketing strategy of only opening to new customers every few months. This strategy drove interest in Bio through the roof. It became like Studio 54 where everybody wanted in but only the lucky few made it. Those that did get in were just happy to be there, and not wanting to jeopardize their membership in an exclusive club, tended to remain silent when they encountered problems.

Private sources do offer some advantages over public sources - things like better and more personalized service, less likely to be overwhelmed by sales volume provided they limit the number of customers and don't succumb to greed, and possibly less chance of getting scammed outright, although there are still no guarantees that won't happen. What private sources don't have is better quality gear than established public sources. Private sources are small operations that lack the means to test their raw powders and finished product. The gear is usually made in a kitchen by an amateur without training in chemistry or sterility. But the biggest problem with private sources is that when they have problems such as underdosed or bunk gear, the complaints are never aired in public. This makes it difficult for prospective customers to properly evaluate the source.

Big public sources are in a far better position than private sources to influence Chinese suppliers to provide high quality raws simply because of the large quantities they purchase. They have the means to test the raws, but unfortunately, that's an area that still needs improvement. And they are better equipped to handle larger sales volume without letting it affect product quality. But the biggest advantage public sources offer customers is that their complaints are posted openly.

None of this is to say that public sources are inherently better than private sources. But just because a source is private doesn't mean the quality of their product is superior, either. There are no magic sources with special access to raw powder. At the end of the day, both public and private sources are selling exactly same thing - UGL quality gear.

The Steroid Underground's mission is to educate members about the steroid black market, and provide an uncensored forum where members can discuss sources. What it was never meant to be is an AAS sales platform. There has been an improvement recently in that public sourcing has declined and is being discouraged by members. Unfortunately, this has had the unfortunate effect of increasing the number of private and member sources.

The increasing frequency with which private sources are operating on Meso is becoming a problem and it's hurting the credibility of the board. Meso is about full disclosure. But private sources, by their very nature, cannot be discussed openly, and their presence is undermining the purpose of the forum. Even when these private sources are openly discussed, especially when the private sources is a member, their customers are usually friends with them and very reluctant to criticize them.

Personally, I don't have a problem with members using private sources. What members do is their own business. But anyone that professes to care about the credibility of this forum should be very concerned that there are more and more secret/private sources setting up shop here that can't be discussed. We've done a good job moving Meso away from being a public sourcing forum, while still being able to discuss our experiences with sources. But we need to do a better job with the private and member sources. If Meso is to remain credible, then private, and particularly member sourcing must be discouraged. A good place to start is by encouraging new members to stop chasing phantoms; to teach them that private sources aren't necessarily the best sources, or even good sources. They're just sources that cannot be openly discussed, and as such, have no business soliciting on Meso. The best means of ensuring quality from any source is by actively encouraging sources to test their product, not turning to private sources that rely on subjective reports. Either Meso is going to be a forum for members to OPENLY discuss their experience with ALL sources or it isn't, It's in the members hands to decide.

Regards

CBS

First, I would like to say that this was a very well written post. Lots of good information. One thing you said I would like to reference is that " Private sources are small operations that lack the means to test their raw powders and finished products. The gear is usually made in a kitchen by an amateur without training in chemistry or sterility." This could be a possibility, but the reality is most UGL,s are not run by chemists or people trained in that type of setting including the large suppliers. I personally have run tests of raw materials and finished products from basic users to large manufactures of many different kinds of medicines. Where credibility is earned it can still be subjective. Nothing beats a test. So, if somebody can prove the laboratory source to be legitimate and there is a person on the phone to explain the method of testing and details as to how the sample was identified and how reference standards were used then its all really a "good word." I also see SMEC producing final reports. Where are all the graphs that support the evidence for detection? Also, in tablets, what excipients were used? These are even more important that the correct dosing for tablets. The sad thing is that many people do not have access to companies that test. Understand, this is somebody that works in a laboratory who uses a Dinoex 3000 uHPLC. I think what the boards offer is great especially from a practical application (bodybuilder science). I just see a lot of subjectivity in the posts. We look at numbers and when you test the same compounds multiple times for validity they don't lie. It isn't cheap to do the testing I know, but if the topic is quality then I think it can be proven by the numbers. Once again, great post.

 

[ironwill1951]

and you are ??

First, I would like to say that this was a very well written post. Lots of good information. One thing you said I would like to reference is that " Private sources are small operations that lack the means to test their raw powders and finished products. The gear is usually made in a kitchen by an amateur without training in chemistry or sterility." This could be a possibility, but the reality is most UGL,s are not run by chemists or people trained in that type of setting including the large suppliers. I personally have run tests of raw materials and finished products from basic users to large manufactures of many different kinds of medicines. Where credibility is earned it can still be subjective. Nothing beats a test. So, if somebody can prove the laboratory source to be legitimate and there is a person on the phone to explain the method of testing and details as to how the sample was identified and how reference standards were used then its all really a "good word." I also see SMEC producing final reports. Where are all the graphs that support the evidence for detection? Also, in tablets, what excipients were used? These are even more important that the correct dosing for tablets. The sad thing is that many people do not have access to companies that test. Understand, this is somebody that works in a laboratory who uses a Dinoex 3000 uHPLC. I think what the boards offer is great especially from a practical application (bodybuilder science). I just see a lot of subjectivity in the posts. We look at numbers and when you test the same compounds multiple times for validity they don't lie. It isn't cheap to do the testing I know, but if the topic is quality then I think it can be proven by the numbers. Once again, great post.

 

[jbeg1985]

i appreciate the post! something i have noticed while trolling the underground, is how diligent well known members get to the bottom of the bullshit. but me being a new member i have gotten very little positive response in trying to find a well known established source. I am not concerned about private or public source, i dont care if the source is foreign or domestic. to be honest i am looking for a trustworthy source that stands by their product. yes i fear my order being confiscated but that is part of the risk i can deal with. i can only assume that the fear of me being L.E is the reason i dont recieve any good feed back. im not going to lie, i have almost fallen for some of the scammers to get some gear but i continued to read and have put off in ever case. so with all this being said i would truly appreciate any positive feedback on at least a place to start with purchasing quality gear.

besides all that being said, i am very thankfull for the members here that have kept me from making mistakes and putting something that is bunk or worse in my ass! i can tell i found the right place for experience and know how in the body building world.

 

[jaymaximus]

i appreciate the post! something i have noticed while trolling the underground, is how diligent well known members get to the bottom of the bullshit. but me being a new member i have gotten very little positive response in trying to find a well known established source. I am not concerned about private or public source, i dont care if the source is foreign or domestic. to be honest i am looking for a trustworthy source that stands by their product. yes i fear my order being confiscated but that is part of the risk i can deal with. i can only assume that the fear of me being L.E is the reason i dont recieve any good feed back. im not going to lie, i have almost fallen for some of the scammers to get some gear but i continued to read and have put off in ever case. so with all this being said i would truly appreciate any positive feedback on at least a place to start with purchasing quality gear.

besides all that being said, i am very thankfull for the members here that have kept me from making mistakes and putting something that is bunk or worse in my ass! i can tell i found the right place for experience and know how in the body building world.

Theres a few sources here that lots of people order from. And you should check out anaboliclab.

But no one is going to tell you exactly who to order from. And even if they did, why should you listen? Vet or not, you dont know anybody here. You dont know why theyre "helping" you.

You gotta pick a lab on your own, be a man, and stick by it. In the end its your body youre injecting it into. Good luck.

 

[jbeg1985]

Theres a few sources here that lots of people order from. And you should check out anaboliclab.

But no one is going to tell you exactly who to order from. And even if they did, why should you listen? Vet or not, you dont know anybody here. You dont know why theyre "helping" you.

You gotta pick a lab on your own, be a man, and stick by it. In the end its your body youre injecting it into. Good luck.

ok, to clarify. i am skeptical by nature, from all i have read some members hold a lot of weight in the forums. but i have looked at aas review sites and one of the more popular sites is naps. everyone of the review sites has them on it. i have also seen naps on hear, so lets say a member has used them before, they could let me know of their experience. long delivery time, good or bad product, if it was bad or confiscated does the site stand by their word and replaced bad or seized gear. also most sites like naps that i have looked at all have multiple products that are all the same just different labs made them. so what are the best labs to go with dragon pharm, genshi labs ext. so for a first time buyer the information is endless. i just dont want to end up pinning something that will kill me and i want to make sure it does its intended purpose. i understand nobody is going to hook me up with their personal dealer and well unless i trusted you like my best friend i wouldnt buy from your personal dealer. but if i have muiltiple people tell me the same place to get gear then that gives me more assurance that im doing it right. its all a game of odds and i would like to stack the deck as much as i can for myself.

 

[CdnGuy]

I use private but with MB's program would be open to public as well now. Private is wayyyy more convenient and product decent thus far. But that could change over night. It's all a gamble either way....

 

[Cardinal Rule]

ok, to clarify. i am skeptical by nature, from all i have read some members hold a lot of weight in the forums. but i have looked at aas review sites and one of the more popular sites is naps. everyone of the review sites has them on it. i have also seen naps on hear, so lets say a member has used them before, they could let me know of their experience. long delivery time, good or bad product, if it was bad or confiscated does the site stand by their word and replaced bad or seized gear. also most sites like naps that i have looked at all have multiple products that are all the same just different labs made them. so what are the best labs to go with dragon pharm, genshi labs ext. so for a first time buyer the information is endless. i just dont want to end up pinning something that will kill me and i want to make sure it does its intended purpose. i understand nobody is going to hook me up with their personal dealer and well unless i trusted you like my best friend i wouldnt buy from your personal dealer. but if i have muiltiple people tell me the same place to get gear then that gives me more assurance that im doing it right. its all a game of odds and i would like to stack the deck as much as i can for myself.

I am new here also, but spent a very long time reading on this forum. Every question you have has been answered in several places. I made the decision to start my first cycle from reading right here on ME SO. The vets will be the first to tell you to keep reading, the info is here.

 

[adam cabby]

AS a Newbie to this site, this post makes sense. Thanks for the great information

 

[jbeg1985]

I am new here also, but spent a very long time reading on this forum. Every question you have has been answered in several places. I made the decision to start my first cycle from reading right here on ME SO. The vets will be the first to tell you to keep reading, the info is here.

thank you, i have continued to read. I probably spend more time than i would like to admit reading here. Most nights a minimum of an hour. I finally made a choice and my stuff should be to me soon. I found muiltiple sources that from feedback on threads i found to be worth the risk. But i am going to continue educating myself on the subject and can hopefully reach my goals.

 

[RandallNowan]

Excellent post.

Tell me - wouldn't the dark web and a peer-reviewed market be an excellent place for people to be selling their gear (if they had any confidence in it!)

There seem to be all manner of high grade recreational substances just a few clicks away... I'd have thought the market for AAS was comparable to some of what's sold on there....?

 

[RandallNowan]

N.B. I wouldn't call a dark market source a private source... It's public... Just not available to total technotards or granny having a random clickabout on her grandson's lappy.

 

[Burrr]

Most of us wont spend much time on the dark web. I had TOR going for a couple weeks, navigating was difficult and every time I clicked on something I was worried I was gonna get hacked or catch something.
Now they are talking about search warrants on anyone with TOR

 

[RandallNowan]

Most of us wont spend much time on the dark web. I had TOR going for a couple weeks, navigating was difficult and every time I clicked on something I was worried I was gonna get hacked or catch something.
Now they are talking about search warrants on anyone with TOR

Yeah, I'm hearing this.
If you use a VPN then they can't tell you're on TOR, though.
Fucking invasive bastards... I should be able to communicate however I want!

 

[Troypg]

There's been a lot of interest in private sources lately, especially from new members who believe private sources have something public sources don't. The belief that private sources produce higher quality products because they have special access to the best Chinese raw steroid powder suppliers is widespread, but unsupported. And the truth is, nothing could be further from the truth. But people tend to want that which they cannot have. Believing the grass is always greener on the other side is human nature.

When Stretch started Biologic, he used the brilliant marketing strategy of only opening to new customers every few months. This strategy drove interest in Bio through the roof. It became like Studio 54 where everybody wanted in but only the lucky few made it. Those that did get in were just happy to be there, and not wanting to jeopardize their membership in an exclusive club, tended to remain silent when they encountered problems.

Private sources do offer some advantages over public sources - things like better and more personalized service, less likely to be overwhelmed by sales volume provided they limit the number of customers and don't succumb to greed, and possibly less chance of getting scammed outright, although there are still no guarantees that won't happen. What private sources don't have is better quality gear than established public sources. Private sources are small operations that lack the means to test their raw powders and finished product. The gear is usually made in a kitchen by an amateur without training in chemistry or sterility. But the biggest problem with private sources is that when they have problems such as underdosed or bunk gear, the complaints are never aired in public. This makes it difficult for prospective customers to properly evaluate the source.

Big public sources are in a far better position than private sources to influence Chinese suppliers to provide high quality raws simply because of the large quantities they purchase. They have the means to test the raws, but unfortunately, that's an area that still needs improvement. And they are better equipped to handle larger sales volume without letting it affect product quality. But the biggest advantage public sources offer customers is that their complaints are posted openly.

None of this is to say that public sources are inherently better than private sources. But just because a source is private doesn't mean the quality of their product is superior, either. There are no magic sources with special access to raw powder. At the end of the day, both public and private sources are selling exactly same thing - UGL quality gear.

The Steroid Underground's mission is to educate members about the steroid black market, and provide an uncensored forum where members can discuss sources. What it was never meant to be is an AAS sales platform. There has been an improvement recently in that public sourcing has declined and is being discouraged by members. Unfortunately, this has had the unfortunate effect of increasing the number of private and member sources.

The increasing frequency with which private sources are operating on Meso is becoming a problem and it's hurting the credibility of the board. Meso is about full disclosure. But private sources, by their very nature, cannot be discussed openly, and their presence is undermining the purpose of the forum. Even when these private sources are openly discussed, especially when the private sources is a member, their customers are usually friends with them and very reluctant to criticize them.

Personally, I don't have a problem with members using private sources. What members do is their own business. But anyone that professes to care about the credibility of this forum should be very concerned that there are more and more secret/private sources setting up shop here that can't be discussed. We've done a good job moving Meso away from being a public sourcing forum, while still being able to discuss our experiences with sources. But we need to do a better job with the private and member sources. If Meso is to remain credible, then private, and particularly member sourcing must be discouraged. A good place to start is by encouraging new members to stop chasing phantoms; to teach them that private sources aren't necessarily the best sources, or even good sources. They're just sources that cannot be openly discussed, and as such, have no business soliciting on Meso. The best means of ensuring quality from any source is by actively encouraging sources to test their product, not turning to private sources that rely on subjective reports. Either Meso is going to be a forum for members to OPENLY discuss their experience with ALL sources or it isn't, It's in the members hands to decide.

Regards

CBS

im new to all of this and i appreciate the concern for transparency

 

[Burrr]

The guy who asked me about my source last year, only to post the email of a private lab and call me a shill just PMed me asking for a source. GTFO, lol