Anabolic Steroids & Kidney

[readalot]

Question for the "experts" here, I tested my cystatin C levels.

How does to look in your opinion?

Not great. Top of range. Unsure if the cystatin C assay you did was standardized. Post your CMP as well.


More info:

eGFR Calculator

www.kidney.org

STANDARDIZED ASSAYS FOR CALCULATING GFR IN ADULTS

All GFR estimating formulas on this site are designed for use with standardized creatinine and standardized cystatin C values. Standardized creatinine values are traceable to isotope dilution mass spectrometry (IDMS). Standardized cystatin C values are traceable to the International Federation...

www.kidney.org

Clarifying the confusion of GFRs, creatinine, and cystatin C

Because measurements of GFR are tedious, estimated GFRs based on creatinine or cystatin C are widely used for assessing kidney function. Both measured GFRs and the...

acutecaretesting.org

Creatinine & eGFR

As I feared would happen, my creatinine and eGFR levels are getting worse while on even low doses of testosterone. 02/12/2021 pre-TRT Creatinine 1.10 ML/MIN/1.73, 0.80-1.40 eGFR African American 93 ML/MIN/1.73, >60 eGFR non-African Amer 81 ML/MIN/1.73, >60 11/06/2021 pre-TRT Creatinine 1.36...

www.excelmale.com

See a doctor. Take care.

 

[malfeasance]

Curious about the above - have you seen a doctor or learned anything more about that level?

 

[Davidinovg]

Curious about the above - have you seen a doctor or learned anything more about that level?

Hey man,

Yes I went to a nephrologist and shown all my labs and they told me to do not worry as my creatine to GFR ratio is fine and all looks normal since I'm a bodybuilder with a lot of muscle mass.

They told me as well they don't use cystatin C as reference for CKD (I'm confused as well) since the value may change and vary depending on hydration.

I told them about my abuse of steroids so they will keep me monitored every 6 months but so far all is good, they gave me few more markers to be checked in the next months like CPK and some others, I asked them if I should check my creatinine clearance but they said is not needed.

My situation may be different from yours or others so if you are in a similar situation I recommend you to see a nephrologist.

The doctor that checked me is the primary doctor of the dialysis department in nephrology.

They suggest me as well to drink not less than 5/6 liters of water daily and avoid aminoacids supplements.

 

[29trt]

They suggest me as well to drink not less than 5/6 liters of water daily and avoid aminoacids supplements

why aminoacids in particular?
the usual rhetoric from MDs is no protein powders or creatine...

 

[Davidinovg]

why aminoacids in particular?
the usual rhetoric from MDs is no protein powders or creatine...

No idea bro, yes anyway they told me as well to avoid protein powders and try to get all my proteins from food which is impossible for me due to my job.

I work on cruise ships so I have limited access to food so protein powders are something I will never be able to avoid.

Regarding creatine they didn't tell me much..

 

[leepriest_doshapemontado]

I tought aminoacids was better because they have less waste product that protein,

there is also ketoanalogues that is "special" EAA ( essential amino) that dont produce that waste products. thats what doctors give to pacients with CKD with very low protein intake. like 0.2gr/kg 0.4gr/kg

eating less protein will help a lot kidney function,

i m looking more into this , less stress on kidneys and less stress digestive system .

 

[barbell001]

I tought aminoacids was better because they have less waste product that protein,

there is also ketoanalogues that is "special" EAA ( essential amino) that dont produce that waste products. thats what doctors give to pacients with CKD with very low protein intake. like 0.2gr/kg 0.4gr/kg

eating less protein will help a lot kidney function,

i m looking more into this , less stress on kidneys and less stress digestive system .

So are normal EAA's less stressful on the kidneys then compared to something like Whey Isolate?

Also is something like Whey Concentrate harder on the kidneys compared to Isolate or Hydrolysate because there is less digestion involved?

 

[Jin23]

Hey man,

Yes I went to a nephrologist and shown all my labs and they told me to do not worry as my creatine to GFR ratio is fine and all looks normal since I'm a bodybuilder with a lot of muscle mass.

They told me as well they don't use cystatin C as reference for CKD (I'm confused as well) since the value may change and vary depending on hydration.

I told them about my abuse of steroids so they will keep me monitored every 6 months but so far all is good, they gave me few more markers to be checked in the next months like CPK and some others, I asked them if I should check my creatinine clearance but they said is not needed.

My situation may be different from yours or others so if you are in a similar situation I recommend you to see a nephrologist.

The doctor that checked me is the primary doctor of the dialysis department in nephrology.

They suggest me as well to drink not less than 5/6 liters of water daily and avoid aminoacids supplements.

Tbh, this sounds like a pretty sketchy doc. Not using or recognizing cystatin c, saying all is fine based on speculative creatinine (which is impacted by hydration and muscle mass, amongst other factors) and gfr measurements and advising 6l of daily water intake despite saying all is a-ok ... Fyi, I hope you're not drinking 6l a day or if you are, that you are heavily supplementing with electrolytes.

 

[Davidinovg]

Tbh, this sounds like a pretty sketchy doc. Not using or recognizing cystatin c, saying all is fine based on speculative creatinine (which is impacted by hydration and muscle mass, amongst other factors) and gfr measurements and advising 6l of daily water intake despite saying all is a-ok ... Fyi, I hope you're not drinking 6l a day or if you are, that you are heavily supplementing with electrolytes.

Thanks for your reply, I'm now drinking around 5 liters just because I feel I need them and I'm thirsty, I'm not forcing myself to drink so there are days where drink slightly less around 4 liters.

What do you recommend and in which dosages as far as electrolytes?

 

[malfeasance]

Question for the "experts" here, I tested my cystatin C levels.

How does to look in your opinion?

I am not familiar with that range, but, I mean, the result is at the high end, but it is within the range of "normal" that they have assigned to that test.

I am not sure I would be too worried about that.

 

[Jin23]

Thanks for your reply, I'm now drinking around 5 liters just because I feel I need them and I'm thirsty, I'm not forcing myself to drink so there are days where drink slightly less around 4 liters.

What do you recommend and in which dosages as far as electrolytes?

Unless you're sweating profoundly every day, I really don't understand why you'd need 5 liters of water.

Electrolytes are pretty individual as they depend on various levels of your hormones (vasopressin, aldosterone, cortisol, androgens, estrogens, ...), your kidney function and ofc your activity levels. You need the most sodium, then potassium and the least of magnesium. I can say you need 2.500g of sodium, for 3l of water, but maybe you'd need 3.500 or maybe 1.500 ... For 5 liters of water I can say almost without reservation you need more then 2.500g's of sodium. Monitor how concentrated your urine is, how often you pee, your thirst levels, your blood pressure (for instance pulse pressure can go up if sodium is too low) and your subjective feeling for sodium should also be a relatively solid measure. You can also do blood and check sodium and potassium levels ... And don't forget about potassium and magnesium! Buy a potassium powder, like potassium citrate and a good absorbable magnesium. Kidneys need magnesium as it's crucial for ion pumps and channels which help balance electrolytes.

 

[Davidinovg]

Unless you're sweating profoundly every day, I really don't understand why you'd need 5 liters of water.

Electrolytes are pretty individual as they depend on various levels of your hormones (vasopressin, aldosterone, cortisol, androgens, estrogens, ...), your kidney function and ofc your activity levels. You need the most sodium, then potassium and the least of magnesium. I can say you need 2.500g of sodium, for 3l of water, but maybe you'd need 3.500 or maybe 1.500 ... For 5 liters of water I can say almost without reservation you need more then 2.500g's of sodium. Monitor how concentrated your urine is, how often you pee, your thirst levels, your blood pressure (for instance pulse pressure can go up if sodium is too low) and your subjective feeling for sodium should also be a relatively solid measure. You can also do blood and check sodium and potassium levels ... And don't forget about potassium and magnesium! Buy a potassium powder, like potassium citrate and a good absorbable magnesium. Kidneys need magnesium as it's crucial for ion pumps and channels which help balance electrolytes.

Thanks man, now I'm on board so I will get my bloodwork done in a month once back home.

Btw my blood pressure is always perfect even on cycle, never had an issue on that.

I'm always thirsty and I pee too fucking much really, even in the night I wake up twice to pee is annoying.

I do take 400mg magnesium glycinate every night before sleep since long time.

 

[Jin23]

I'm always thirsty and I pee too fucking much really, even in the night I wake up twice to pee is annoying.

That does sound like over hydration.

 

[leepriest_doshapemontado]

So are normal EAA's less stressful on the kidneys then compared to something like Whey Isolate?

Also is something like Whey Concentrate harder on the kidneys compared to Isolate or Hydrolysate because there is less digestion involved?

what im trying to say is, i think EAAS OR BCAA have way less waste product than protein... because your re jumping the step breakdown of protein to aminoacids produces. Protein breakdown produces lots waste products, urea, creatinine, ammonia,uric acid.

now i can't find a comparison between protein and amino acids in relation to which produces more waste, however everything leads to the conclusion that amino acids produce less amount of waste and therefore less heavy on the kidneys.

also there is ketoanalogues, they are special EAAS given to CKD Pacients then dont produce waste.

is normal to kidney function decrease with age, but we probably are speeding up the process, is not the type of protein, is about the quantity , we consume to much protein.
the problem with protein powders , u can easy ingest 30 or 40 gr of protein

hydrolysate maybe softer on kidneys because is already being a litlle breakdown, but idont kow.

 

[barbell001]

what im trying to say is, i think EAAS OR BCAA have way less waste product than protein... because your re jumping the step breakdown of protein to aminoacids produces. Protein breakdown produces lots waste products, urea, creatinine, ammonia,uric acid.

now i can't find a comparison between protein and amino acids in relation to which produces more waste, however everything leads to the conclusion that amino acids produce less amount of waste and therefore less heavy on the kidneys.

also there is ketoanalogues, they are special EAAS given to CKD Pacients then dont produce waste.

is normal to kidney function decrease with age, but we probably are speeding up the process, is not the type of protein, is about the quantity , we consume to much protein.
the problem with protein powders , u can easy ingest 30 or 40 gr of protein

hydrolysate maybe softer on kidneys because is already being a litlle breakdown, but idont know.

Is there any further news on these Mechanical kidneys they have been researching a few years back - they are supposed to be able to replace normal human ones. Just plug in the batteries and go!!! lol

 

[barbell001]

Unless you're sweating profoundly every day, I really don't understand why you'd need 5 liters of water.

Electrolytes are pretty individual as they depend on various levels of your hormones (vasopressin, aldosterone, cortisol, androgens, estrogens, ...), your kidney function and ofc your activity levels. You need the most sodium, then potassium and the least of magnesium. I can say you need 2.500g of sodium, for 3l of water, but maybe you'd need 3.500 or maybe 1.500 ... For 5 liters of water I can say almost without reservation you need more then 2.500g's of sodium. Monitor how concentrated your urine is, how often you pee, your thirst levels, your blood pressure (for instance pulse pressure can go up if sodium is too low) and your subjective feeling for sodium should also be a relatively solid measure. You can also do blood and check sodium and potassium levels ... And don't forget about potassium and magnesium! Buy a potassium powder, like potassium citrate and a good absorbable magnesium. Kidneys need magnesium as it's crucial for ion pumps and channels which help balance electrolytes.

To my knowledge if you have CKD or eGFR issues then you have to be very careful with Potassium supplementation as the kidneys have a hard time filtering it all out from the blood - resulting in potential heart issues from it rising to dangerous levels. Thats the problem with taking Losartan as it has potassium in it as standard. I never knew magnesium was important for them actually - I know it helps lower BP by relaxing the artery walls.

 

[barbell001]

Do we know if there is any ACTUAL evidence or studies that conclude creatine is bad for the kidneys if they are of decreased eGFR or is it purely based on assumption because of a false negative for increased creatinine levels? ie Is there anything creatine does to cause toxicity to the kidneys like trenbolone does for instance?

 

[Jin23]

To my knowledge if you have CKD or eGFR issues then you have to be very careful with Potassium supplementation as the kidneys have a hard time filtering it all out from the blood - resulting in potential heart issues from it rising to dangerous levels. Thats the problem with taking Losartan as it has potassium in it as standard. I never knew magnesium was important for them actually - I know it helps lower BP by relaxing the artery walls.

Yes but I'm just assuming he doesn't have any reall issues and thus am just discussing/advising his high water intake.

 

[enginist]

I take 100mg metroprolol and 20mg lysinapril. BP was still hard to keep steady. Could be kidney disease was responsible . When I first starting taking it, I'd pass out if I stood to fast. Strong stuff. Better than pushing daisys though.

BP variability is associated with dementia. When you've resolved all you other problems, you may want to smooth out the BP.

 

[soltary]

Hello,

I am looking for "astragalus" due to its many beneficial properties for the kidneys, but I am having trouble finding a brand in Europe that works. Most recommendations are for "The Vitamin Shoppe" and "Gorilla Mind," but I don't have access to these supplements. I would be grateful if someone could recommend another brand.