Primo: risk-reward profile... is it 'conspicuous consumption' or does it really only 'shine' with long-term use?

[Qualityfirst]

yes, I've posted a few of his videos, and another guy named Big Paul a few times... but that's it lol.

So are you saying the 1g of Deca did all that damage? The Primo vs Deca bloodwork is night and day, that's all I'm saying.

I felt great on Deca only...I should have never added the drol, and I never will use it again, nor any other oral for that matter.

I just ordered a fuck-ton more primo lol; I also have a shit-ton of deca left.

I was actually going to run Test/Primo/Deca at 400mg each to see how that does.

No issues with ED on deca? That compound is notorious for causing problems in that department

 

[Deleted member 123722]

No but I think it for more than just how you feel. Meth/Cocaine makes people feel great. Doesn't mean their labs aren't fucked up.

Should have gotten labs before adding something else in. Then you would know if it was the drol or simply the deca catching up to you...

Test/deca/primo... I am sure that seems like a solid cycle.
But when are you going to cruise if you are about harm reduction?

I guess I have two options... Push into a bulk right now and Cruise in January before my next cut...or cruise right now. But this goes back to my original argument against cruising: if I stop taking gear for two months, and cruise on TRT only, what is that going to really do if I go blast another bulk from Oct through Jan? See what I mean. Are two months being on TRT goingn ot save my life? No. Moreoever, if I push hard for this year and till my cut to get to my goal, will it kill me? No.

Right now I'm just on 400 cyp and 400 primo. From the labs you saw on 400 cyp 600 primo, they were barely off at all, which I know for a fact I'm doing way healthier than most people who will deal with horrible bloods for years on end. Now we have people doing "sports TRT" which is basically a light cycle when you look at the dosages. So the way I see it, I'm already cruising on what I am now.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

No issues with ED on deca? That compound is notorious for causing problems in that department

On the deca only, I had zero issues with my dick... I did not have a "sex drive" in the sense that I was horny nonstop and wanted to fuck everything with a heart beat, but when it was time to get laid, it worked great. I'm married so I don't need to chase pussy.

 

[stormface]

Adding to the fun, I tried to add primo to my TRT and destroyed my libido, joints, and will to continue. 175/140 test/primo. I did not make time to pull bloods, but all signs pointed to low e2. I pulled the primo and felt like a human again within 4 days.

I’ll try it again on blast and make sure to pull bloods next time.

 

[Rido]

I guess I have two options... Push into a bulk right now and Cruise in January before my next cut...or cruise right now. But this goes back to my original argument against cruising: if I stop taking gear for two months, and cruise on TRT only, what is that going to really do if I go blast another bulk from Oct through Jan? See what I mean. Are two months being on TRT goingn ot save my life? No. Moreoever, if I push hard for this year and till my cut to get to my goal, will it kill me? No.

Right now I'm just on 400 cyp and 400 primo. From the labs you saw on 400 cyp 600 primo, they were barely off at all, which I know for a fact I'm doing way healthier than most people who will deal with horrible bloods for years on end. Now we have people doing "sports TRT" which is basically a light cycle when you look at the dosages. So the way I see it, I'm already cruising on what I am now.

No. staying regimented and keeping moderation is going to save your life dude.

You make it sound like you cant cut without more than 300mg of AAS.

You seem to act delusional and constantly promoting these safe drugs and regimens but when it comes to doing what we all discuss... Breaks, you choose not to follow it.

Stop talking about blood work, you even said you arent knowledgable on it or other health markers such as getting an echo.

So you are going to do a Blast/Blast? Cruising on 800-1000mg of Anabolics? Thats a Blast.

Sports TRT/cruise is roughly 3mg/kg of bodyweight. so lets assume 400mg max. you cannot compare what you are doing to that?

Why dont you go ask Victor Black what he thinks of your model? Why don't you actually get his content and see what his BLAST AND CRUISE BELIEF REALLY IS? Not his free videos.

He believes a cruise should be TRT dosage. Even then he says he pushes 250mg MAX of test for TRT

 

[Deleted member 123722]

No. staying regimented and keeping moderation is going to save your life dude.

You make it sound like you cant cut without more than 300mg of AAS.

You seem to act delusional and constantly promoting these safe drugs and regimens but when it comes to doing what we all discuss... Breaks, you choose not to follow it.

Stop talking about blood work, you even said you arent knowledgable on it or other health markers such as getting an echo.

So you are going to do a Blast/Blast? Cruising on 800-1000mg of Anabolics? Thats a Blast.

Sports TRT/cruise is roughly 3mg/kg of bodyweight. so lets assume 400mg max. you cannot compare what you are doing to that?

Why dont you go ask Victor Black what he thinks of your model? Why don't you actually get his content and see what his BLAST AND CRUISE BELIEF REALLY IS? Not his free videos.

He believes a cruise should be TRT dosage. Even then he says he pushes 250mg MAX of test for TRT

No, I get all that man, but the point is: what does cruising for two month going to do if I'm going to jack up dosages for a 16-20 week cycle once I'm done?

I could understand blast for a few months, then cruise for 9 months or something, but this break in between cycles just doesn't make sense.

If someone is done doing blasts, then I can see the cruising thing for life or whatever.

Logically, the 800mg of anabolic of cyp/primo won't do shit to my bloods at all, since higher dosages didn't; so they are clearly safe. I'd understand If I was taking 400 cyp and 400 deca or something for that long, but I'm not.

Point is, I'm not going to stop until I get the result I want. Why? Because there is no point to stop for a month or two break; what is that really going to do? Okay, I restore my markers to normal, then I'm just going to fuck them up again...right? It's not like I'm pushing red and my liver is going to explode; it makes sense to push until I get what I want, then cruise and see what I can maintain from there. This on-and-off model just doesn't make sense unless your breaks in between cycles are very long.

 

[Rido]

No, I get all that man, but the point is: what does cruising for two month going to do is I'm going to when I'm going to jack up dosages for a 16-20 week cycle?

I could understand blast for a few months, then cruise for 9 months or something, but this break in between cycles just doesn't make sense.

If someone is done doing blasts, then I can see the cruising thing for life or whatever.

Logically, the 800mg of anabolic of cyp/primo won't do shit to my bloods at all, since higher dosages didn't; so they are clearly safe. I'd understand If I was taking 400 cyp and 400 deca or something for that long, but I'm not.

Point is, I'm not going to stop until I get the result I want. Why? Because there is no point to stop for a month or two break; what is that really going to do? Okay, I restore my markers to normal, then I'm just going to fuck them up again...right? It's not like I'm pushing red and my liver is going to explode; it makes sense to push until I get what I want, then cruise and see what I can maintain from there. This on-and-off model just doesn't make sense unless your breaks in between cycles are very long.

No you don't get it. you have been on blast for the past 2 years 80 percent of the time right? more than 300mg of AAS?

lol... thats fine dude. No harm reduction coach would agree with your practice at all.

Do what you want man, I am done trying to convince you of what is healthy and what isnt. Because you have a strong understanding of what health markers are?


Its not like you have a family and kids to worry about and raise.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

No you don't get it. you have been on blast for the past 2 years 80 percent of the time right? more than 300mg of AAS?

lol... thats fine dude. No harm reduction coach would agree with your practice at all.

Do what you want man, I am done trying to convince you of what is healthy and what isnt. Because you have a strong understanding of what health markers are?


Its not like you have a family and kids to worry about and raise.

I get where you're coming from but it's not been TWO years lol; I started brewing my own gear the beginning of last year.... My first cycle was literally test cyp 200 and tren e 200; I took off a month and my bloods were normal...then I jumped on cyp/ primo for the first time...bloods barely moved with only three things off by a few digits... then I did my Deca only; then jumped into my Test/primo/tren cut... and here I am now. SO yea, the last cycle is fucking extended as hell... so I could take September off to "cruise' at true TRT, but then I'm going to jump on the stack I told you, so wtf is ONE month or even TWO months going to do to save my life? Nothing bro, and you know it. Nor is this going to kill me or damage me permanently, unless I go on for YEARS doing shit shit.

Most of these guys NEVER come off; shit many of these Instagram influencers are blasting higher dosages with harsher compounds like tren all year round, and taking orals, insulin and other shit. My usage is a joke compared to theirs.

 

[Deskoze38192]

Adding to the fun, I tried to add primo to my TRT and destroyed my libido, joints, and will to continue. 175/140 test/primo. I did not make time to pull bloods, but all signs pointed to low e2. I pulled the primo and felt like a human again within 4 days.

I’ll try it again on blast and make sure to pull bloods next time.

IMHO thats a high dose of Primo for trt
Not enough aromitizing compound (Test) to combat the E2 lowering effects of Primo
I have found that I can run 50 mg Primo at trt dose of test and e2 is okay.
1:1 ratio when I’m running more test (500mg)

 

[Deleted member 123722]

@Cridi887

It just so happens I'm not going to crack open my last primo vial and I'll just stay on test for the next month, perhaps even six weeks, as I'm going to try this new Mr. Israetel volume training method. So there, I'll be only on 400mg test.

Also, have to say, I've felt the primo slightly affect libido: A few days ago I tried to jerk off and I wasn't feeling the sensation. Idk if it was a one-off or not, but if all you guys have libidio issues, perhaps this is something. However, I had no issue banging my wife, so maybe it was a one time thing lol.

 

[Rido]

@Cridi887

It just so happens I'm not going to crack open my last primo vial and I'll just stay on test for the next month, perhaps even six weeks, as I'm going to try this new Mr. Israetel volume training method. So there, I'll be only on 400mg test.

Also, have to say, I've felt the primo slightly affect libido: A few days ago I tried to jerk off and I wasn't feeling the sensation. Idk if it was a one-off or not, but if all you guys have libidio issues, perhaps this is something. However, I had no issue banging my wife, so maybe it was a one time thing lol.

If you got the blood woke on a sensitive e2. It would have given you an idea on how primo fucks with it.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

If you got the blood woke on a sensitive e2. It would have given you an idea on how primo fucks with it.

That is one that isn't on the normal male panel correct; you have to specifically ask for it?

 

[Rido]

That is one that isn't on the normal male panel correct; you have to specifically ask for it?

It is on a normal male panel online..

 

[Deleted member 123722]

It is on a normal male panel online..

yea I just checked again, they didn't do it, unfortunately.

 

[HB_22]

Are two months being on TRT goingn ot save my life? No.

It gives your body and heart time to undo some maladaptations, so let's say you push hard 6 months and face mild to moderate LVH, you give your heart at least two months to let it regress to a certain point. Im not saying it will be okay or completely gone within a 2 month time frame, but it is at least something. Better than just blasting and blasting and blasting.

Also coming off of everything (no TRT, no nothing) seems a lot harsher to me than staying on 150-300mg of test.

 

[Jin23]

@falseprophet09 You are delusional and going of off drugs will bring your head back to normal. THIS IS WHY YOU COME OFF. Your level of impulsivity, that the drugs are causing, is killing you. Your neurobiology needs a fucking break, so you understand/remember once again what it means to be human. You are on drugs! You are not sane in the same manner a person that is not on drugs is. If you cycle long enough you forget that. And you just want to perpetuate that state of mind on and on. And then once you get of, like 700ng/dl levels with FREE T IN RANGE, in a couple of weeks when thing cool down in your head, your going to be like "what the fuck was I thinking/doing!!??"

Trust me on this one, I've done this plenty of times. Actually I'm going through it right now; I've been on aa low dose cycle (max 250mg's) since january. And now I'm waiting for aas to wash out, my levels are currently at 200 ng/dl. You forget, you really do, you become obsessed with some stupid chit like muscle gain above all else, but you out off all people here, who also understands ego, and meditates, should have a deep understanding in what I'm saying.

Get the fuck of off everything. Become normal, calm, composed, and stay there for a while. You think some blood markers like LDL and HDL is all there is to it? Really? Don't be that fucking naïve bro. You are hurting yourself in ways you obviously can't even imagine. Just do it, don't even think about it. Don't pin anything for 4 weeks, then start using like 75mg of test per week, or what ever gets you in the 500 - 700 range with free T, most importantly, also being in range. Remember TT doesn't do anything really, free T and free DHT is what matters.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I'm not delusional; I'm just making logical arguments here...getting mad at me is not going to do anything. Like I said, it literally makes no sense to stop unless you're at your goal and then you maintain it with a little as possible. The body cannot maintain the amount of muscle any of us would build with a certain amount of gear; no one takes grams of gear and just maintains for life on trt....no one. If it were possible, everyone would do it; every retired pro or Mr. O would do it , but you can't name a single person who has or can.

Regardless, I've decided to drop the Primo and just stay on test for now. This means I'm taking a break off everyone I was on, including GH. Milo Sarcev has been on 500mg of test for literally 25 years straight, and his arguments to do so are sound. Everyone is different, and I know I'm one of those people who are resilient with resistance to sides from drugs in general, including steroids.

The point I'm making is simple: two most of cruising at 250 or 150 isn't going to save your life from the constant blasts everyone is doing on here...now THAT'S delusional to think otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Milos Sarcev: The Difference Between Correct And Incorrect Steroid Use In Bodybuilding

Milos Sarcev dives deep into steroid usage in bodybuilding - describing the correct and incorrect ways athletes are using this powerful and potentially dangerous drug.

generationiron.com

 

[Jin23]

I'm not delusional; I'm just making logical arguments here...getting mad at me is not going to do anything. Like I said, it literally makes no sense to stop unless you're at your goal and then you maintain it with a little as possible. The body cannot maintain the amount of muscle any of us would build with a certain amount of gear; no one takes grams of gear and just maintains for life on trt....no one. If it were possible, everyone would do it; every retired pro or Mr. O would do it , but you can't name a single person who has or can.

Regardless, I've decided to drop the Primo and just stay on test for now. This means I'm taking a break off everyone I was on, including GH. Milo Sarcev has been on 500mg of test for literally 25 years straight, and his arguments to do so are sound. Everyone is different, and I know I'm one of those people who are resilient with resistance to sides from drugs in general, including steroids.

The point I'm making is simple: two most of cruising at 250 or 150 isn't going to save your life from the constant blasts everyone is doing on here...now THAT'S delusional to think otherwise.

You are delusional and no; you are not listening. Your logic is a fallacy. It's based on lacking information. And even if we disregard all the physiological consequences, of which knowledge you are lacking, you are not listening; your are high on drugs. If you can't see/feel that, then you are not as enlightened as you made yourself to be in the ketamine discussion.

Bodybuilding is a slow process. It's not going to end after a next blast. There is still going to be that and this that you'll want to achieve and this never really ends. So you need to make it sustainable. Now you are just weak, you don't want the feeling of being on to go away. It's a scary process, I know, but you sound like a self absorbed drug addict. Rationalizing to him self why he should continue using the drugs. As I said, and you didn't listen, your mind is on drugs, you need to get to physiological levels in order to feel, think, reason, etc. as a SOBER person.

You know, do what you want. But for everybody else reading this; no, being constantly on cycle is not healthy, and here you can witness a classical drug addict behaviour. Not every drug addict is on the street putting needles in his arms. There are various levels of addiction, one of them being functional addict. Aas have a broad effect on your mental state, for some it's more pronounced and for others it's less, but they effect us all profoundly. Namely impulsivity and an unstable personality disorder, which you can see here for yourself.

No matter how you put it, aas are trash drugs, and you can not make them safe or healthy. Cycling all the time, just leads to all sorts of neurobiological chit. So don't cycle all the time. Simple. But if you do, then at least be cognisant of your changed behaviour and personality.

 

[Rido]

You are delusional and no; you are not listening. Your logic is a fallacy. It's based on lacking information. And even if we disregard all the physiological consequences, of which knowledge you are lacking, you are not listening; your are high on drugs. If you can't see/feel that, then you are not as enlightened as you made yourself to be in the ketamine discussion.

Bodybuilding is a slow process. It's not going to end after a next blast. There is still going to be that and this that you'll want to achieve and this never really ends. So you need to make it sustainable. Now you are just weak, you don't want the feeling of being on to go away. It's a scary process, I know, but you sound like a self absorbed drug addict. Rationalizing to him self why he should continue using the drugs. As I said, and you didn't listen, your mind is on drugs, you need to get to physiological levels in order to feel, think, reason, etc. as a SOBER person.

You know, do what you want. But for everybody else reading this; no, being constantly on cycle is not healthy, and here you can witness a classical drug addict behaviour. Not every drug addict is on the street putting needles in his arms. There are various levels of addiction, one of them being functional addict. Aas have a broad effect on your mental state, for some it's more pronounced and for others it's less, but they effect us all profoundly. Namely impulsivity and an unstable personality disorder, which you can see here for yourself.

No matter how you put it, aas are trash drugs, and you can not make them safe or healthy. Cycling all the time, just leads to all sorts of neurobiological chit. So don't cycle all the time. Simple. But if you do, then at least be cognisant of your changed behaviour and personality.

Add the word "logical" to any response to soumd intelligent.