GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
40-60 mg of anavar will give same or better look faster and cheaper
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Primo: risk-reward profile... is it 'conspicuous consumption' or does it really only 'shine' with long-term use?
- Thread starter Type-IIx
- Start date
That's what primo does, it gives a nice, full, round look with great pumps. It isn't going to make anyone a mass monster, but greatly improves your look, and quality of your physique. Really shines when dieting.
With extremely fucked up lipids to go along with it.
And ridiculous strength gains. Primo is much safer, but anavar is quite the compound for certain applications.
Ironman580
Member
Most of u guys have this false idea that certain steroids give u a certain look - what look does primo supposedly give u that mast or Npp or say eq doesn’t give u - more far fetched nonsense statement
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
Npp is a wet compound primo is a dry one are you serious.
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
Many body builders use primo before a show it has its place.
GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
Primo is great for woman and as a cruising drug. Most people can run it at 300-400 without many sides.
For me i had hair loss even at 400.
To see it shine it need to be run 600-800 and att that dose it affects my lipids also .
So i get less sides with 150 mg tren and much better results than 800 primo.
So if one is not a hipper responder to primo or has no side effects from it i don't see the point.
I was a primo fan to until i ran it for 6 months most of it was att 600-800 mg and did not see much difference then running test with low dose masteron.
Glad i got this Primo faze out of my life and done with !
For me i had hair loss even at 400.
To see it shine it need to be run 600-800 and att that dose it affects my lipids also .
So i get less sides with 150 mg tren and much better results than 800 primo.
So if one is not a hipper responder to primo or has no side effects from it i don't see the point.
I was a primo fan to until i ran it for 6 months most of it was att 600-800 mg and did not see much difference then running test with low dose masteron.
Glad i got this Primo faze out of my life and done with !
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
I wanted to mention this study by Patt et al. [1] that is making the rounds as evidence that Primo may pose a relative cardiac harm. Perhaps @PeterBond will chime in if he's read this one, as he is the undisputed king of teasing out weaknesses and strengths of studies IMO.
This study showed that Promo may promote hypertension/cardiovascular disease via increased mineralocorticoid biosynthesis.
Primo increased mineralocorticoid production but decreased adrenal androgen production indicating CYP17A1 dysfunction via indirect inhibition (post-translation) and/or impaired protein synthesis. Was not supported by docking/modeling. In adrenocortical carcinoma H295R cells... seems highly speculative for authors to speculate hypertension/CVD in vivo?
"[Primo] exhibited the weakest CYP17A1 inhibition (among mesterolone, mestanolone and methenolone), with only a trend to increase progesterone production and no change in 17alpha-hydroxyprogesterone... total CYP17A1 activity was decreased in a compound-dependent manner... [Primo] the weakest." [1]
I thought its findings with regard to Adrol and Tbol were more relevant. Though, I cannot say I've ever heard of a single confirmed case of adrenal hyperplasia in a bodybuilder, nor have I looked. These findings were supported by docking.
Peter, do you suppose suppression of corticosteroid production coupled with increased DHEA and androgen synthesis in H295R could indicate an increase of aggression rather than "adrenal hyperplasia" in vivo?
References:
[1] Patt M, Beck KR, Di Marco T, Jäger MC, González-Ruiz V, Boccard J, Rudaz S, Hartmann RW, Salah M, van Koppen CJ, Grill M, Odermatt A. Profiling of anabolic androgenic steroids and selective androgen receptor modulators for interference with adrenal steroidogenesis. Biochem Pharmacol. 2020 Feb;172:113781. doi: 10.1016/j.bcp.2019.113781. Epub 2019 Dec 27. PMID: 31884045.
This study showed that Promo may promote hypertension/cardiovascular disease via increased mineralocorticoid biosynthesis.
Primo increased mineralocorticoid production but decreased adrenal androgen production indicating CYP17A1 dysfunction via indirect inhibition (post-translation) and/or impaired protein synthesis. Was not supported by docking/modeling. In adrenocortical carcinoma H295R cells... seems highly speculative for authors to speculate hypertension/CVD in vivo?
"[Primo] exhibited the weakest CYP17A1 inhibition (among mesterolone, mestanolone and methenolone), with only a trend to increase progesterone production and no change in 17alpha-hydroxyprogesterone... total CYP17A1 activity was decreased in a compound-dependent manner... [Primo] the weakest." [1]
I thought its findings with regard to Adrol and Tbol were more relevant. Though, I cannot say I've ever heard of a single confirmed case of adrenal hyperplasia in a bodybuilder, nor have I looked. These findings were supported by docking.
Peter, do you suppose suppression of corticosteroid production coupled with increased DHEA and androgen synthesis in H295R could indicate an increase of aggression rather than "adrenal hyperplasia" in vivo?
References:
[1] Patt M, Beck KR, Di Marco T, Jäger MC, González-Ruiz V, Boccard J, Rudaz S, Hartmann RW, Salah M, van Koppen CJ, Grill M, Odermatt A. Profiling of anabolic androgenic steroids and selective androgen receptor modulators for interference with adrenal steroidogenesis. Biochem Pharmacol. 2020 Feb;172:113781. doi: 10.1016/j.bcp.2019.113781. Epub 2019 Dec 27. PMID: 31884045.
PeterBond
Well-known Member
Glancing over it, I'll keep it short.
1. Don't ever extrapolate what happens with the production of 1 molecular player of some physiological process (blood pressure in this case) in response to exposure to a compound by a cancer cell line to what happens in vivo in humans.
2. They used completely retarded concentrations of the compounds. They used concentrations of 1 micromolar. 1 micromolar = 1000 nanomolar. While you might perhaps reach that in the blood stream with very very very high dosages, this should be further corrected for the lower binding capacity in these cell cultures. They cultured the cells on something called Nu-Serum, which consists of 25% fetal bovine serum. So it contains only 1/4th the concentration of albumin and SHBG found in fetal bovine serum. Albumin concentrations in fetal bovine serum are already a bit lower than what's found in humans. SHBG concentrations are too low to impact anything anyhow with these concentrations, but especially given that bovine SHBG has a 10x lower affinity for testosterone than does human SHBG. (Of course, god knows what the affinity is for methenolone for example, but who cares anyhow). The point here is that the free concentrations are likely a lot higher than they would be in humans. As such, the concentration of 1 micromolar (which is already extremely high) is likely more comparable to twice, or perhaps, more than that in what human tissues would be exposed to.
1. Don't ever extrapolate what happens with the production of 1 molecular player of some physiological process (blood pressure in this case) in response to exposure to a compound by a cancer cell line to what happens in vivo in humans.
2. They used completely retarded concentrations of the compounds. They used concentrations of 1 micromolar. 1 micromolar = 1000 nanomolar. While you might perhaps reach that in the blood stream with very very very high dosages, this should be further corrected for the lower binding capacity in these cell cultures. They cultured the cells on something called Nu-Serum, which consists of 25% fetal bovine serum. So it contains only 1/4th the concentration of albumin and SHBG found in fetal bovine serum. Albumin concentrations in fetal bovine serum are already a bit lower than what's found in humans. SHBG concentrations are too low to impact anything anyhow with these concentrations, but especially given that bovine SHBG has a 10x lower affinity for testosterone than does human SHBG. (Of course, god knows what the affinity is for methenolone for example, but who cares anyhow). The point here is that the free concentrations are likely a lot higher than they would be in humans. As such, the concentration of 1 micromolar (which is already extremely high) is likely more comparable to twice, or perhaps, more than that in what human tissues would be exposed to.
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Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Yes, "...because such a level may be reached in AAS abusers." Citation needed!
I suppose we could sit down and use Vermeulen and some optimistic extrapolation from Bhasin 2001 to hypothetically model what type of free T they're actually modeling.
Has anyone here recorded single digit SHBG on bloodwork (nmol/L)?
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
My study on primo on my own experiments is I love it.
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
I did my shgb was 4 on 800 primo 400 test
My last SHBG was 8 on 500mg of primo.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Were you taking an AI? Do you feel that an AI is actually unnecessary with 500mg+ primo in the mix? What was E2 like?
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
Estrogen was at 32. I did not use a ai at all. 800 primo 400 test
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
I stay on 200 primo all year round and 200 test never use any ai don't need it
nealcaffrey16
Well-known Member
I'm happiest around here too, yeah. 160-200 test and 300-400 primo.
VenomYo
Banned
Yes, but what about hair loss. And if you're about to say that you're bald, then I know primo has to be avoided.
GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
Maybe on low doses on a cruise you can avoid shredding more than with most other Anabolic's!
Some people don't shed hair others can’t keep it even without Aas!
You have to try shit and see where you land! In my experience if you get it from a compound and are not naturally incline to lose it its reversible if not done for long periods of time.
First cycle i lost hair on test only, then i added some finasteride and in two to three months the hair got back to where it was(same density)
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