Sending AAS samples to independent, accredited laboratory in Europe

[Millard]

@Millard Baker, thank you for the results. I'm a little confused because poorly versed in this. It turns out that this is a good numbers? Or it is necessary to pay attention to other tests?

I want to remind everyone that it is important to exercise caution before jumping to conclusions based on positive results from a single lab report. At best, it may inform us about the quality of that particular batch of testosterone enanthate. It does not necessarily inform us about ALL batches of testosterone enanthate produced by the manufacturer/UGL. And it certainly does not inform us about ALL batches of ALL products produced by the manufacturer/UGL.

Once we have 5-10 random reports over time of various batches of testosterone enanthate from a manufacturer/UGL, then we can make conclusions about the testosterone enanthate product with a higher degree of confidence. Similarly, once we randomly test 5-10 different products, then we can make conclusions about the manufacturer with a higher degree of confidence.

@CensoredBoardsSuck summed it up nicely in another thread:

You can't predict which batches are going to be good. Millards testing program won't make a difference over the short term. It's over the long term - after repeated, RANDOM tests on each lab - where it starts to shine.

...

The magic is the unpredictability of it all. The testing program will work because sources will never know when they will be tested or what is going to be tested. If the source wants to pass the test, and they will if their competitors are passing, they'll have no choice but to ensure ALL their gear is legit ALL the time. I really believe this could be a game changer and that's why it's so important to donate.

 

[Millard]

So what's getting tested next!?

This will only be announced once all of the products for the second batch of testing have been received by the lab.

 

[greenddog1]

Correct. These comments from my correspondence with Simec may provide answers as well especially the portion I emphasized.

"Generally, with our HPLC-methods we see most of the other / similar steroids during an analyses... It is just not always possible to clearly identify the other substances, for this we would either have to perform additional analyses runs, or (expensive) HPLC-MS analyses... If we see a hint for another or a second/third/… compound in a steroid analyses, we always report this as additional information. But as I wrote above, you never can be sure to find all..."

IMO, if any other compounds are found, it should be noted in the conclusion. I know this could possibly lead to unnecessary testing, but full disclosure is needed to meet the status of harm reduction. What are your thoughts?

 

[Millard]

IMO, if any other compounds are found, it should be noted in the conclusion. I know this could possibly lead to unnecessary testing, but full disclosure is needed to meet the status of harm reduction. What are your thoughts?

It is my understanding that the lab will report other compounds that are detected in its official report as a matter of policy. But sometimes, additional testing is required which means additional costs.

The first batch involved limited testing. As funding for the program increases, we hope to have more comprehensive testing that will allow consumers to make better decisions as it relates to harm reduction. For example, microbiological testing and heavy metal testing is very important and will be included in future testing. In addition, multiple analyses on the same sample and/or HPLC-MS analyses may be conducted when there are big concerns about contamination with other steroid compounds.

 

[greenddog1]

It is my understanding that the lab will report other compounds that are detected in its official report as a matter of policy. But sometimes, additional testing is required which means additional costs.

The first batch involved limited testing. As funding for the program increases, we hope to have more comprehensive testing that will allow consumers to make better decisions as it relates to harm reduction. For example, microbiological testing and heavy metal testing is very important and will be included in future testing. In addition, multiple analyses on the same sample and/or HPLC-MS analyses may be conducted when there are big concerns about contamination with other steroid compounds.

All the more reason for all AAS users to contribute to the program. Just like pct meds are part of the cycle, so should contributing to the testing on an ongoing basis is vital to everyone's health, money management and peace of mind.

Independent analytical lab testing for anabolic steroid harm reduction

Donate here --> https://www.gofundme.com/aas-harm-reduction

 

[Millard]

We have posted all 5 lab test results for testosterone enanthate. We have 12 more to go. We will post them over the next 12 days.

Which compound's lab test results would you like to see posted next?

Please answer our poll: https://thinksteroids.com/community...und-do-you-want-to-see-posted-next.134366008/

 

[greenddog1]

Masteron and primo.

 

[MassTurk]

Millard newbies will take this as a green light to order from these labs and I think it's not a good idea. We all know these samples were collected where these manufacturers operate. After seing so many bad blood work,I certanly believe the chain of custody from the manifacturars to US users, most of them tamper with the product. We need samples from end users here in US. Also thank you for all this and my donation is on the way

 

[Genghis K.]

Millard, you have forgotten more about the AAS "game" than I know and I'm not wet behind the ears. I have a lot of respect for you. So my question is, do you completely trust the lab results and the lab's work? It's the skeptic in me, but all samples passed? I want to believe, just doesn't pass the smell test for me right now.

Again my question, are you completely comfortable with the results and overall competency of the lab?

I was one of the first to donate to this noble cause ( it is for our community) and appreciate your diligent work in putting this together.

 

[vgc]

This still doesn't explain the bad blood tests. The verdict on pharmacom is still out but isn't Geneza well known to be underdosed? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In that case, there is some discrepancy between those blood tests and these results which makes me question the source. It would be nice to have batch numbers and the source of the samples.

I get 5x on Watson from the pharmacy. So does another guy I talk to. My Endo has told me some guys need even higher dosing than me. These test results suggest that the "bad bloods" might suggest that the 10x rule is not as solid many think.

 

[noah_k]

I'm really excited for this. I know we all are. Is there any reason you didn't make mention of meso on the new site, would you prefer to keep those efforts separate Millard?

 

[smbignick]

Outstanding!! @Millard Baker ..any plans for testing orals?

 

[zombie]

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the compounds test out from these labs. I am glad we have this program; the more informed we are, the safer we will be in the long run. A lot of people have questioned the 7-10 x blood levels “rule” after seeing the lab results posted today. I’ve done a lot of blood work over the past few years since starting TRT. How I react to testosterone has many variables. I’ve found that on smaller doses (150 mg – 200 mg) I get closer to the 10X blood levels. But when pinning 600 mg I am closer to 7x blood levels. I think that has to do with how quickly my body can absorb a specific volume of testosterone. A small volume quickly absorbs and hits peak blood levels faster whereas a larger volume is slower to absorb with less of a total peak. Everybody is different, general rules are meant to be guidelines not hard truths.

Blood work is the one thing we should all be doing to ensure that we are safe and healthy whether we are cycling, TRT or blasting and cruising. As the end user it’s still ultimately up to us to learn how we react to these compounds. I have a pretty liberal clinic; I am prescribed 400 mg of test per week along with 400 mg Deca per week. I rarely use the Deca because the cost is prohibitive. When I do run those amounts I usually do monthly blood work to keep an eye on hematocrit and other markers like E2.

From a harm reduction stand point compound testing tells us only if a compound is safe to use, if it’s accurately dosed. Blood work tells us if those compounds can be safely used by the individual. For example I never run Test over 600 mg per week anymore because when I ran 750 mg a week in a 6 week time frame my hematocrit went from 49 to 60.

Sorry for the long rant it’s just that we are ultimately responsible for our health, having a few good labs posted shouldn’t be the door for us to stop with our due diligence. Repeated blood work will teach you as an individual where you fit in with the 7-10x rule( even though for you it maybe 5x) and how you react in regards to raised RBC and hematocrit, liver enzymes, hdl/ldl and a host of other important markers.

 

[Millard]

Again my question, are you completely comfortable with the results and overall competency of the lab?

Yes. I have complete confidence in Simec. Simec is internationally-recognized and a fully-accredited testing facility (1):

• GMP Certification through Swissmedic (the Swiss agency for therapeutic products)
• ISO/EN 17025 accreditated by SAS (Swiss Accreditation Service, STS 443)
• Successfully audited by the FDA (United States Food and Drug Administration)

In addition to its credentials, Simec specializes in "steroid analytics" as one of its special services (2):

"The subject of steroids remains very delicate: The use and or possession of steroids are forbidden in many countries, and they are frequently abused for doping. There are many dubious suppliers, which introduce poor quality or even fraudulently labelled products to the market.

"In Switzerland, steroids analytics and the importation and possession of corresponding reference standards is permitted by the authorities.

"Over the years, we have established the determination for a large number of very different steroids in our laboratory, but new products are constantly being introduced... While doing so, we were able to uncover false information about the content or ingredients several times and thus contribute to the prevention of further serious harm to the health of users."​

So, not only do I have confidence in lab, Simec could very well be one of the best prepared and most qualified labs to analyze anabolic steroids.

References:

1. http://simec.ch/en/ueber-uns/qualitaet.html

2. http://simec.ch/en/laboranalytik/spezielle-analytik.html

 

[Millard]

I'm really excited for this. I know we all are. Is there any reason you didn't make mention of meso on the new site, would you prefer to keep those efforts separate Millard?

While using the MESO name could initially lend considerable credibility to the program, I think greater long-term success can be achieved for the program if it is allowed to grow independently and separately from MESO.

I hope the AnabolicLab program is one that will attract the support of the broader community of steroid- and bodybuilding-related forums. If the program is perceived as primarily, or even secondarily, as a marketing tool to drive traffic to MESO, then I think this will hurt its efforts to attract broader support.

This is the reason you will not find any mention of MESO or hyperlinks to MESO.

If the top 10 AAS/BB related forums all become regular monthly sponsors of the program, then it is possible that MESO could be recognized on the website but only as one of many sponsors and without preference.

 

[Millard]

Outstanding!! @Millard Baker ..any plans for testing orals?

Most definitely!

 

[wsw16]

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the compounds test out from these labs. I am glad we have this program; the more informed we are, the safer we will be in the long run. A lot of people have questioned the 7-10 x blood levels “rule” after seeing the lab results posted today. I’ve done a lot of blood work over the past few years since starting TRT. How I react to testosterone has many variables. I’ve found that on smaller doses (150 mg – 200 mg) I get closer to the 10X blood levels. But when pinning 600 mg I am closer to 7x blood levels. I think that has to do with how quickly my body can absorb a specific volume of testosterone. A small volume quickly absorbs and hits peak blood levels faster whereas a larger volume is slower to absorb with less of a total peak. Everybody is different, general rules are meant to be guidelines not hard truths.

Blood work is the one thing we should all be doing to ensure that we are safe and healthy whether we are cycling, TRT or blasting and cruising. As the end user it’s still ultimately up to us to learn how we react to these compounds. I have a pretty liberal clinic; I am prescribed 400 mg of test per week along with 400 mg Deca per week. I rarely use the Deca because the cost is prohibitive. When I do run those amounts I usually do monthly blood work to keep an eye on hematocrit and other markers like E2.

From a harm reduction stand point compound testing tells us only if a compound is safe to use, if it’s accurately dosed. Blood work tells us if those compounds can be safely used by the individual. For example I never run Test over 600 mg per week anymore because when I ran 750 mg a week in a 6 week time frame my hematocrit went from 49 to 60.

Sorry for the long rant it’s just that we are ultimately responsible for our health, having a few good labs posted shouldn’t be the door for us to stop with our due diligence. Repeated blood work will teach you as an individual where you fit in with the 7-10x rule( even though for you it maybe 5x) and how you react in regards to raised RBC and hematocrit, liver enzymes, hdl/ldl and a host of other important markers.

Your last paragraph is on point, and is exactly what is needed to be able to judge properly. I've been saying it for ages, but everyone is different. Everyone processes testosterone or whatever it might be either more efficiently or less efficiently than the next person. That's why you need regular blood work to compare your OWN results. There's a reason pro bodybuilders are genetic freaks and metabolizing gear at an optimum level is part of that. And of course the more you take the further away you will be from the 10x mark and that simply comes down to how much your body can process, otherwise someone who is on 2 grams of test would be having numbers around the 20,000 mark. It would be absurd.

Constant regular blood work from individuals and these great tests will make the difference.

 

[super8]

First tren ace result is up. Eurochem 75 mg/ml.

"Label claim: EuroChem Laboratories EC Trenaject 75 has a label claim of 75 mg/ml trenbolone acetate.

Actual content: EuroChem Laboratories EC Trenaject 75 was determined to have an actual content of 64.55 mg/ml trenbolone acetate."

That's acceptable IMO. The surprising positive results continue..

 

[ironnut]

We have posted all 5 lab test results for testosterone enanthate. We have 12 more to go. We will post them over the next 12 days.

Which compound's lab test results would you like to see posted next?

Please answer our poll: https://thinksteroids.com/community...und-do-you-want-to-see-posted-next.134366008/

Millard first thank you for getting this off the ground i suggested somthing similiar in my own thread but you were ahead of me with the resources and making this happen. Kudos!

Its great to see these test results as positive as they were. But as many have said we will only no over time for sure. Although i am really not surprised by the results why would a ugl underdose the cheaper products like test and dbol etcc, npp etc..

I think it would be better to focus on the more expensive gear like primo, mast, var etc.. Those would be the ones i think most ugls would undrdosed or substitute for another compound.

Hopefully i am making sense. Thanks again Milliard this is a great start.

 

[Wunderpus]

So far I am impressed by EuroChem. Has anyone used them before?