The DNP Retatrutide Extreme Fat Loss Cycle

[ShredSeason]

Have you thought about getting a trainer/coach? It is actually money well spent for someone who really needs guidance and accountability.

In your case, someone with nutritional background, since your goal is fat loss.

I’d like that! I don’t think anyone would be remotely down with what I’m doing though. The compound side of that is very much understandable, I’d just have to find someone that’s ok with obese people running steep caloric deficits and fasting. I do know that some exist, the snake diet guy was the one that turned me onto the idea that obese people don’t need to eat as long as they’re getting in their electrolytes.

It makes sense. The fasting fatman went a year and a half without food, he logged everything on YouTube, and there was this study done way back in the day where this 500 or so pound guy went 1 or 2 years without eating.

 

[narta]

Nah, I’m mostly just going to work on ramping up my exercise. I still have so much more that I can add, only doing light cardio right now. I’d like to get a basic push pull leg routine going,

I am gonna say my piece too and you decide:

Cut the bro splits, curls and shit. Go on a novice starting strength program of linear progression. Squats, deads, bench and ohp. To it for 6 months adding 1 rep or 2 pounds each session. Cut the major crap from your diet, don't count calories, just cut the shit out, extra sugar, fats, fast food and alcohol.

For drugs, go on trt and reta only to give you the edge.

In 6 months you will be a different person.

 

[lonewolf54321]

I’d like that! I don’t think anyone would be remotely down with what I’m doing though. The compound side of that is very much understandable, I’d just have to find someone that’s ok with obese people running steep caloric deficits and fasting. I do know that some exist, the snake diet guy was the one that turned me onto the idea that obese people don’t need to eat as long as they’re getting in their electrolytes.

It makes sense. The fasting fatman went a year and a half without food, he logged everything on YouTube, and there was this study done way back in the day where this 500 or so pound guy went 1 or 2 years without eating.

And if I recall correctly, the 500 lb guy that didn't eat for over a year or 2 ended up dying soon after starting to eat again.

 

[ShredSeason]

I am gonna say my piece too and you decide:

Cut the bro splits, curls and shit. Go on a novice starting strength program of linear progression. Squats, deads, bench and ohp. To it for 6 months adding 1 rep or 2 pounds each session. Cut the major crap from your diet, don't count calories, just cut the shit out, extra sugar, fats, fast food and alcohol.

Thank you! I’m gonna do that program! I’m pretty sure I’ve already cut all that stuff out, but I’ll have to think about it some more.

For drugs, go on trt and reta only to give you the edge.

In 6 months you will be a different person.

Yeah, those are the things I want to keep and am comfortable using. I don’t have to run DNP a whole month like I planned. HGH has been fucking glorious for my sleep though, I don’t think I’ve ever slept this good my entire life. I’d have to really think about losing that one.

 

[ShredSeason]

And if I recall correctly, the 500 lb guy that didn't eat for over a year or 2 ended up dying soon after starting to eat again.

Here it is, he started at 456 pounds and didn’t eat for 382 days

Barbieri took vitamins on various occasions throughout the fast, including potassium and sodium supplements.
At the end of his ordeal, Barbieri tipped the scales at 180 pounds. Five years later, he'd still kept almost all the weight he'd lost off, weighing in at 196
Barbieri's extreme regimen is not the only fast for health of eye-popping duration. In 1964, researchers published a study noting that "prolonged starvation" could be an effective treatment for severe obesity, with at least one patient fasting for 117 days.

 

[zerodiddy]

All you really need at your weight is any GLP-1. For the appetite suppression. You don't need DNP, and you keep posting about upping the dose, but if you're gonna use it just stick to 500mg i recommend. Be careful with that stuff man

Reminder that eating 600 calories at your weight is pretty torture, a tiny amount of calories is worse than no calories at all in terms of willpower, so I would either fast completely or eat something more reasonable like 1700 calories especially since you're on DNP and going to be losing fat anyways. 1700 isn't alot, you're probably still going to be at a big deficit versus how much you currently used to eat to get to your current weight, 1700 calories a day is probably still a 2000 deficit since your tdee is prolly >4k.

 

[Blang]

I’d like that! I don’t think anyone would be remotely down with what I’m doing though. The compound side of that is very much understandable, I’d just have to find someone that’s ok with obese people running steep caloric deficits and fasting.

FWIW, being a coach who has coached a handful of clients on the super heavy side, I mostly like your general approach. In particular, I've done a lot of work on the "how to keep loose skin to a minimum" front and you're definitely in the ballpark.

While I do agree that more extreme approaches often lead to burnout/rebound/etc, I absolutely encourage fasting for clients like that. While the poster above is right that all you really need is a GLP-1 agonist (or tri-agonist like Ret) is all you really need (obv technically you don't need anything but discipline and consistency), I don't completely hate the DNP use, but you'd be surprised how low I'd look at running it.

Obviously there's so many facets to it all, and getting an extreme approach like that to work long-term is tricky and needs to be optimized properly (alongside getting the mental side right), but I definitely don't mind it in general.

 

[M@NU]

also coach here who has worked with quite obese people in the past.
yes, the normal diet approach would work here of course for quite a while.
the issue is that it would take over a year for him with a conventional deficit to get to a somewhat normal bodyfat level.
the extreme version is better for obese people in my opinion. It is easier to adhere to an extreme deficit for lets say 12 weeks than to a conventional deficit for 60 weeks.
But. Your cardiovascular system is already working hard enough to move those ~350 pounds around. Keep it on the safe side with DNP. ive run DNP from 125mg ED to 800mg ED and in my opinion, 250mg ED is already plenty and works perfectly fine.
And please do not stop after 4 weeks. In 4 weeks, you will still be obese. go Longer but more moderate (atleast with the DNP). I would do 6 weeks on / 2 weeks off / 4 weeks on with the DNP.
And most imporant : find a way to keep your weight down. Dont go back to what you used to do. Find a new diet you can adhere to. Find sports/movements that you love and that you like to to and stick to it

 

[ShredSeason]

All you really need at your weight is any GLP-1. For the appetite suppression. You don't need DNP, and you keep posting about upping the dose, but if you're gonna use it just stick to 500mg i recommend. Be careful with that stuff man

Reminder that eating 600 calories at your weight is pretty torture, a tiny amount of calories is worse than no calories at all in terms of willpower, so I would either fast completely or eat something more reasonable like 1700 calories especially since you're on DNP and going to be losing fat anyways. 1700 isn't alot, you're probably still going to be at a big deficit versus how much you currently used to eat to get to your current weight, 1700 calories a day is probably still a 2000 deficit since your tdee is prolly >4k.

Thank you, I’ll be careful. I should have been more clear about this, but I’ve been doing the 600 calorie thing for 6 weeks now, I’m down from 368 pounds. I think I must just respond very well to GLPs, because it’s been extremely easy. My TDEE is around 3500, I could get it over 4000 with exercise though.

 

[Eman]

Is 1,000 mg for a 600 pound man the same as 250 mg for a 150 pound man? It sounds ridiculous when you take it to that extreme, but I’ve always seen dosage be taken in the context of mg/kg.

No. The original DNP studies indicated ranges of 1mg/kg to 4mg/kg of bodyweight.

Don't pick arbitrary dosages with DNP. It's one of the few drugs that you cannot plan ahead in that way.

200mg for you is plenty, EOD would have been better - I strongly suggest that you do not exceed that. Go two weeks, if you're feeling alright, then go two weeks off. I've done 600mg - I would not do it again. Even 400mg is asking for some long days and some longer nights. 200mg isn't too bad but I suspect it'd be more uncomfortable if I were carrying an extra 100lbs.

 

[ShredSeason]

200mg isn't too bad but I suspect it'd be more uncomfortable if I were carrying an extra 100lbs.

I’m sorry bro, but I am so confused. if dosage is mg/kg, wouldn’t that mean 200mg would affect a heavier person less than a lighter person, not more?

 

[Goosejooce]

Just a heads up, increasing your daily exercise load while running DNP is going to be extremely difficult, especially if you up the dosage past 200mg.
From personal experience, I even dropped back from 200mg to 100mg because it wasnt worth the lethargy

As @narta said, Trt, maybe 2iu GH, and get your actual habits in order instead of this 'throwing all this shit at a wall and hoping it sticks approach'

 

[ShredSeason]

Day 3: sw 338 cw 333.5, ~600 calories
Today great, I felt so wonderful. The morning was brutal though. I went too long without electrolytes and vitamins. No increased sweating or decreased energy. I don’t feel hot, but after dinner, I did feel the increased carb heat for the first time. Very mild, I didn’t mind it.

Day 4: sw 338 cw 335, ~1,050 calories
Gaining 1.5 pounds overnight after eating 600 calories/day really sucks…I know DNP and HGH retains water, but this is ridiculous. Does it ever stop, will the scale literally not go down until I come off? I’m still not hot, but I notice I’m on the warm side instead of being cold all the time like I’ve been since my weight loss started. No increased sweating. I think the appetite increase is starting though. I was really hungry at dinner, so I let myself eat a little more than usual.

My test finally came in (more water retention). I’ve been off almost 3 weeks, 18 days for this domestic order to TD because the sales rep missed my order…I hope it’s good, because the oil smells fucking awful, and some goofy shit has been going on with this source lately.

 

[Eman]

I’m sorry bro, but I am so confused. if dosage is mg/kg, wouldn’t that mean 200mg would affect a heavier person less than a lighter person, not more?

Sorry - I misread how you worded your question, "no" isn't quite right, I'll trade it in for "kind of, but".

My main point was that they utilized a range of different dosing protocols... 1-4mg/kg. So for example, someone at your weight could have been dosed from 150mg up to 600mg. Someone weighing 50kg less than you could have been dosed at 100mg to 400mg. That is a lot of overlap for two people that weigh 110lbs/50kg more and less than one another... someone 110lbs less than you could be dosed at your same dosage as you or potentially even more.

It seems fairly clear that they operated off of this range because a hard mg/kg formula wasn't being established - they were adjusting because of side effects. Some people tolerated it better than others, and those people had their dose slowly increased to assess tolerance. The doctors running the study were fascinated by the wide range of tolerance across participants.

Check out Cutting and Tainter via JAMA, PubMed, etc. A lot of Conciliator's old posts are based on Cutting and Tainter's work - I highly recommend. There was also a book I read a while back called Dintrophenol: A Most Misunderstood Molecule - it had very intriguing information in it, especially regarding the time period where DNP is said to have been available over the counter.

Question: are you currently hitting the gym? I was a little unclear on that. It sounded a little like the gym was a forthcoming development that may not have actually occurred yet?

 

[ShredSeason]

Sorry - I misread how you worded your question, "no" isn't quite right, I'll trade it in for "kind of, but".

My main point was that they utilized a range of different dosing protocols... 1-4mg/kg. So for example, someone at your weight could have been dosed from 150mg up to 600mg. Someone weighing 50kg less than you could have been dosed at 100mg to 400mg. That is a lot of overlap for two people that weigh 110lbs/50kg more and less than one another... someone 110lbs less than you could be dosed at your same dosage as you or potentially even more.

It seems fairly clear that they operated off of this range because a hard mg/kg formula wasn't being established - they were adjusting because of side effects. Some people tolerated it better than others, and those people had their dose slowly increased to assess tolerance. The doctors running the study were fascinated by the wide range of tolerance across participants.

Check out Cutting and Tainter via JAMA, PubMed, etc. A lot of Conciliator's old posts are based on Cutting and Tainter's work - I highly recommend. There was also a book I read a while back called Dintrophenol: A Most Misunderstood Molecule - it had very intriguing information in it, especially regarding the time period where DNP is said to have been available over the counter.

Question: are you currently hitting the gym? I was a little unclear on that. It sounded a little like the gym was a forthcoming development that may not have actually occurred yet?

Golden information that clears a lot up, thanks!!
I injured my (I think) LCL last week during cardio, but I’m doing what I can. I’m starting weight training again today, just can’t do legs. Cardio is trickier, I can usually sort of walk without pain, but can’t bear weight on that leg doing things like walking up and down stairs. X ray was ofc negative, I have to get an MRI done. It doesn’t seem to be getting better or worse which is…interesting.

 

[Blang]

also coach here who has worked with quite obese people in the past.
yes, the normal diet approach would work here of course for quite a while.
the issue is that it would take over a year for him with a conventional deficit to get to a somewhat normal bodyfat level.
the extreme version is better for obese people in my opinion. It is easier to adhere to an extreme deficit for lets say 12 weeks than to a conventional deficit for 60 weeks

I super agree with this, and the following are just general thoughts and not directed as a rebuttal to you.

I think that the whole "you need to lose weight slowly" dogma really really backfires for guys that are super heavy. It's just unrealistic like you say to tell someone to lose a pound or two a week for 2 years.

The thing is that for guys that heavy, the battle is almost entirely mental. For a guy with 15% body fat trying to get shredded-ish, it can become a slow grind where there's a lot of value in really dialing in every little piece of the puzzle.

For the average 350+ lb guy, they got there from yearssss of very disordered eating habits. The battle becomes 100% mental, because the actual "programming" is cake, at least initially. I had a 450lb client who I started off simply telling him to eat 3000 calories a day, hit a minimum protein number, and try to be a little more active (walking when he could).

No worries about weight training (yet), a strict diet (he was still eating Taco Bell, etc), grueling cardio sessions, drugs/pills etc (other than dialing in some basic supplementation).

And the first 80lbs or so just sailed off.

Sounds like heaven someone like me who has to dial everything in (or very close) to get that last 10lbs off, right?

Without consulting me, he started dropping his calories and doing a bunch of cardio. Guess what happened after 2 weeks? He got burned out, fell off the wagon, disappeared for a month and then came back and told me he'd gained back 30lbs and wanted to know more about the PSMF diet I had mentioned in passing once. Sigh.

So while there's a ton of value in pushing aggressively with someone like that, they have it even worse when it comes to burnout/rebound/etc.

I worry when I see someone talk about "seeing how much weight I can lose in 30 days" because while I have no doubt I could dial someone like that in to lose an absurd amount of weight, one of the worst things is to have a finish line in mind that's still 150lbs from where they need to be .

The chances of hitting the 30 day mark, posting his "amazing results" and then disappearing for 6 months and coming back with another thread about how he fell off the wagon the next week and is now ready to try again is extremely high.

 

[Eman]

Golden information that clears a lot up, thanks!!
I injured my (I think) LCL last week during cardio, but I’m doing what I can. I’m starting weight training again today, just can’t do legs. Cardio is trickier, I can usually sort of walk without pain, but can’t bear weight on that leg doing things like walking up and down stairs. X ray was ofc negative, I have to get an MRI done. It doesn’t seem to be getting better or worse which is…interesting.

Is this your first time with GH?

You may want to back off that and see if the injury passes... I know GH is known for it's healing benefits but I have gotten some weird injuries that I suspect have some association with the fluid retention it can cause.

 

[CrooklynZoo]

I super agree with this, and the following are just general thoughts and not directed as a rebuttal to you.

I think that the whole "you need to lose weight slowly" dogma really really backfires for guys that are super heavy. It's just unrealistic like you say to tell someone to lose a pound or two a week for 2 years.

The thing is that for guys that heavy, the battle is almost entirely mental. For a guy with 15% body fat trying to get shredded-ish, it can become a slow grind where there's a lot of value in really dialing in every little piece of the puzzle.

For the average 350+ lb guy, they got there from yearssss of very disordered eating habits. The battle becomes 100% mental, because the actual "programming" is cake, at least initially. I had a 450lb client who I started off simply telling him to eat 3000 calories a day, hit a minimum protein number, and try to be a little more active (walking when he could).

No worries about weight training (yet), a strict diet (he was still eating Taco Bell, etc), grueling cardio sessions, drugs/pills etc (other than dialing in some basic supplementation).

And the first 80lbs or so just sailed off.

Sounds like heaven someone like me who has to dial everything in (or very close) to get that last 10lbs off, right?

Without consulting me, he started dropping his calories and doing a bunch of cardio. Guess what happened after 2 weeks? He got burned out, fell off the wagon, disappeared for a month and then came back and told me he'd gained back 30lbs and wanted to know more about the PSMF diet I had mentioned in passing once. Sigh.

So while there's a ton of value in pushing aggressively with someone like that, they have it even worse when it comes to burnout/rebound/etc.

I worry when I see someone talk about "seeing how much weight I can lose in 30 days" because while I have no doubt I could dial someone like that in to lose an absurd amount of weight, one of the worst things is to have a finish line in mind that's still 150lbs from where they need to be .

The chances of hitting the 30 day mark, posting his "amazing results" and then disappearing for 6 months and coming back with another thread about how he fell off the wagon the next week and is now ready to try again is extremely high.

This is a fantastic post. As someone who struggled with weight (although never that high, thankfully), it rings 100% true. I bet you're good at your job.

 

[CrooklynZoo]

LGolden information that clears a lot up, thanks!!
I injured my (I think) LCL last week during cardio, but I’m doing what I can. I’m starting weight training again today, just can’t do legs. Cardio is trickier, I can usually sort of walk without pain, but can’t bear weight on that leg doing things like walking up and down stairs. X ray was ofc negative, I have to get an MRI done. It doesn’t seem to be getting better or worse which is…interesting.

I'm dealing with a plantar fasciitis flare up, so in the interim I'm doing the bike and recumbent at the gym for a few weeks to let the feet heal, while still doing some measure of cardio. Might be worth a shot for you.

 

[ShredSeason]

Is this your first time with GH?

You may want to back off that and see if the injury passes... I know GH is known for it's healing benefits but I have gotten some weird injuries that I suspect have some association with the fluid retention it can cause.

Holy shit! I’m glad you said this. Yeah it’s my first time. Gonna stop for a while and see what happens. I’m definitely retaining a lot of water.