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Who is our biggest, most shredded member at Meso?

If gaining muscle in a deficit were remotely possible there would be no "bulk" and no "cut".
I have yet to see anybody deficit there way to the olympia
 
Wunderpus said:
I've seen what appears to be muscle tissue develop in a deficit during a "recomp" cycle, especially during carb cycling like phases. I.e. caloric deficit overall, however 1 or 2 days a week have a higher "spike" in nutrients... This is almost ONLY possible with high anabolics and very, VERY, good training and cardio structure. It is POSSIBLE, but, it appears to be impossible to 99% of people either due to will power or just the inability to handle the difficult balancing act...

In other words, to make this easy, say your "weekly" net macros are 21,000 calories to "maintain" your current body weight (BMR).... If you do, let's say, 19,000 calories that week, and have the 2 higher caloric days on your most challenging training days, then lower your calories/carbs on your cardio days, I have personally as well as seen with others, witnessed what appears to be SLIGHT muscle growth in an overall deficit.

Is it efficient? Maybe. Is it challenging? Very. It's almost 2 steps forward, 1 step back, 2 steps forward, 1 step back, etc. etc....
Click to expand...

But is it really muscle tissue development, or just more visible striations? The pros drop mountains of weight and even lean muscle mass to be stage ready, and we all know shredded creates the illusion of size.
 
Brolloks said:
But is it really muscle tissue development, or just more visible striations? The pros drop mountains of weight and even lean muscle mass to be stage ready, and we all know shredded creates the illusion of size.
Click to expand...
Like I said, it is what "appears" to be muscle... We would have to do body scans to know for sure... I, personally, do think it's possible. Just in a very, very, small and non-profound way in comparison to a surplus.
 
gr8whitetrukker said:
If gaining muscle in a deficit were remotely possible there would be no "bulk" and no "cut".
I have yet to see anybody deficit there way to the olympia
Click to expand...
Efficiency and possibility are two different things. While it may be more efficient to "cut" and "bulk", that doesn't mean other methods are not possible in terms of adding muscle. They just may be slower and less profound.... I'm not arguing that "bulk" and "cut" isn't more efficient than "recomping", yet I do believe you CAN add a small amount of muscle over time in a deficit or maintenance level of calories....
 
Wunderpus said:
Like I said, it is what "appears" to be muscle... We would have to do body scans to know for sure... I, personally, do think it's possible. Just in a very, very, small and non-profound way in comparison to a surplus.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Especially within your carb manipulation argument. I feel and look bigger after a handful of M&M's, for instance :D

The issue for me is that it's a lot easier, cheaper and probably healthier to gain size in a surplus. We all know where that point is. Your lifts go up and you rip apart your wifebeaters every few weeks. No need for dexa scans.
 
Brolloks said:
Agreed. Especially within your carb manipulation argument. I feel and look bigger after a handful of M&M's, for instance :D

The issue for me is that it's a lot easier, cheaper and probably healthier to gain size in a surplus. We all know where that point is. Your lifts go up and you rip apart your wifebeaters every few weeks. No need for dexa scans.
Click to expand...
I see your point. I think it depends a LOT on where you are at in terms of maximal muscle tissue your body will carry around. If you're having to gain 30lbs of fat in order to put on 3lbs of muscle (say you're a 280lbs lean bodybuilder), then, maybe the "slower" method is in fact better... These small changes could be easier due to your insulin sensitivity etc., especially if you are post show etc.

Now, for the average Joe who has a ton of potential to add more muscle still, yes... The old school cut and bulk is probably best... But, again, sensitivity is diminished if you become too fat...

Just food for thought, overall...
 
Wunderpus said:
I see your point. I think it depends a LOT on where you are at in terms of maximal muscle tissue your body will carry around. If you're having to gain 30lbs of fat in order to put on 3lbs of muscle (say you're a 280lbs lean bodybuilder), then, maybe the "slower" method is in fact better... These small changes could be easier due to your insulin sensitivity etc., especially if you are post show etc.

Now, for the average Joe who has a ton of potential to add more muscle still, yes... The old school cut and bulk is probably best... But, again, sensitivity is diminished if you become too fat...

Just food for thought, overall...
Click to expand...

Fully agree that there are instances where slow is better. I guess you can throw in older or obese lifters into the pot. And obviously those who are at a pre-contest stage.

However, from a practical perspective, I don't really think most of us have our diets dialed in tight enough to even go there, or apply the required discipline.

Lovely train of thought though.
 
Brolloks said:
Fully agree that there are instances where slow is better. I guess you can throw in older or obese lifters into the pot. And obviously those who are at a pre-contest stage.

However, from a practical perspective, I don't really think most of us have our diets dialed in tight enough to even go there, or apply the required discipline.

Lovely train of thought though.
Click to expand...
It's always a challenge. I'm going through it right now, actually. I've increased my overall macros by a 5% surplus, and I'm losing weight. Obviously something is wrong... I believe i'm burning more during my lifts and during the day than I estimated... But, nonetheless, just goes to show what a challenge it is to put on a bit of muscle while avoiding much fat gain... I've i just increased it by some absurd amount, like 20%, obviously I wouldn't be losing weight. But, i'd almost certainly start gaining too much fat. So, this is allllll a balancing act.
 
Wunderpus said:
It's always a challenge. I'm going through it right now, actually. I've increased my overall macros by a 5% surplus, and I'm losing weight. Obviously something is wrong... I believe i'm burning more during my lifts and during the day than I estimated... But, nonetheless, just goes to show what a challenge it is to put on a bit of muscle while avoiding much fat gain... I've i just increased it by some absurd amount, like 20%, obviously I wouldn't be losing weight. But, i'd almost certainly start gaining too much fat. So, this is allllll a balancing act.
Click to expand...

That's why even the pros have to compensate by adding hours of cardio per week, despite paying $$$ to dieticians and eating as clean as monks. Our bodies rebel against regularity, and need to be shocked and deprived from time to time.

I know when I'm getting too close if I start going hypo during heavy sessions, but I also realise I can lose weight more efficiently if I don't lift at all. That's where I agree that AAS would be most effective - when you diet for several week without working out.
 
Wunderpus said:
Efficiency and possibility are two different things. While it may be more efficient to "cut" and "bulk", that doesn't mean other methods are not possible in terms of adding muscle. They just may be slower and less profound.... I'm not arguing that "bulk" and "cut" isn't more efficient than "recomping", yet I do believe you CAN add a small amount of muscle over time in a deficit or maintenance level of calories....
Click to expand...
In my opinion. When people "recomp" they are just going through shorter durations of bulk and cuts and flipping back and forth continually. So it seems you can burn and build at the same time, when it isn't actually happening at the same time, if I'm making sense. Especially with carb cycling or higher calorie days, once you cut to a point where calories have to be adjusted again, those high carb/calorie days become surplus days.

Obviously you don't make the same gains(muscle and fat) as compared to having a longer, dedicated bulk period. But it's still possible, just not the most efficient, if your goal is to be as big and as strong as possible. If the goal is to remain lean, and make modest gains, then doing it this way is a good option.

Just bro science, but it's all I have to offer.
 
Trying to gain some off season weight to catch up to you big guys... About 3 weeks now PED free and honestly it’s nice pissing clear water knowing you’ve only had a gallon lol. I honestly feel great. But I’m guessing it’s way easier coming off a huge deficit and then going natty, it’s like regardless I’m going to grow right now- so I’m really goin to stretch this “natural” thing out for another 5 weeks... maybe.... lol

Edit- ok probably not

CED57A4D-23C2-4767-A829-CC9CF2EB4B70.jpeg
 
Thenewera said:
Trying to gain some off season weight to catch up to you big guys... About 3 weeks now PED free and honestly it’s nice pissing clear water knowing you’ve only had a gallon lol. I honestly feel great. But I’m guessing it’s way easier coming off a huge deficit and then going natty, it’s like regardless I’m going to grow right now- so I’m really goin to stretch this “natural” thing out for another 5 weeks... maybe.... lol

Edit- ok probably not

View attachment 78767
Click to expand...
Healthy body = quality gains.... A lesson that took me a LONG time to learn.
 
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