MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
The DNP Retatrutide Extreme Fat Loss Cycle
- Thread starter ShredSeason
- Start date
trtbuilder
Well-known Member
Shut the fuck up, doofus.
Common man.EDIT: IMPORTANT: obviously not losing while fasting does not have to do with your metabolismIt takes a shitload of kcal to keep you alive and you are not dead ...
It's most likely to be water weight (look into the Whoosh Effect) ... or food in transition - remember big part of the food you eat are often burned or converted to fat "a long" time after you eat them.
You will probably lose the actual weight from fasting over the days after the fast ...
Few random thoughts mate:
1) You can't truly expect to be burning 1700 kcals on training, esp not in a kcal defit ... in your shape it will probably be a max of 300 kcal an hour, extra (if you are fully at instense cardio all the time without breaks!)... also as you describe things you are certain to underestimate your kcal intake ... durum like the one you talk about could easily be 1600-1800 kcals ...
You have to meal prep, make some lean protein, some vegs, and keep some fruits around for cravings (and remember the fishoil, 10 grams a day of typical ones is not to much in your situation, or 5-6 grams of the better ones).
You need to get your eating under actual control here.
This should be the main goal of using a GLP-1
Preb, a shitload of lean protein, vegs, and some fruits available.
Perhaps keep the kcal intake higher, till you can titrate the Reta to 8mcg or whatever it takes to make it a hell of alot easier.
Don't fast, when your diet is already a protein fast ... you alreay gets the benifits of a fast at this kcal deficit, execpt the loss of muscle mass ... (that goes as soon as you get below 900 kcals, at 150-200 grams of protein).
Hate to say this: but if you really want to lose rapidly, cut the cardio, lower the training volume, and eat at as big a deficit as possible (on around 150-200 grams of protein a day) ... getting in shape will be allot easier in the phase after ... now DO keep walking and do keep doing LOW intense cardio.
You have to realise the effect of this big deficit on recovery and rebuilding processes ... even when pro bodybuilders use the ENTIRE horrific medicine cabinet, they are not able to build a gram of muscle while cutting this hard.
On the other hand, keeping the mass you already have, does not take much (given how little mass you have already) ... so make sure to plan and time the peds you use, as to how it's smart to do so.
Consider if you can't read the more important part of the book I bought for you, that is in your pm for you.
2) I get worried about some of the supplements, notice you are in a situation where your kidneys need to do a lot of work losing all this fat - normally not a problem at all, even at 3000 kcal deficit for months - but adding all these subs together with all the meds ... well do you have any possibility to get your kidneys measured as you go along?
It's like using PCT while you are on steroids (not smart), you need to split it into phases, instead of trying to do everything at once ... keep breaks where you take on repairing subs etc.
3) Reta does not give you energy by stimulating beta-2 adrenergic receptors, but trouth the glucagon receptor: coffee and such is a total different pathways, so should not effect each other ... it could be a hint something else than the Reta is going on here ...
Most need to reach 8mcg for it to supress appetite effectively ... it's very few that has heart experiences on 8mcg if they titrate to 8mcg, it's mostly some being concerned about a resting pulse of 50 and such ... and like a very little risk of heart problems (happens in 1-2 subjects out of all of them) ... would be good to figure out what is actually going on ... it's very likely to be related to all your training, or dnp while eating like this ... can simply be to big a burden for your heart to handle it.
Whatever Reta does to your heart, it's trough Glucagon actions, not by stimulating the beta2-adrenergic receptors in your throat ... so unlike DNP etc. it should be unrelated to coffee and such intake ...
Reta works the energy sustems trouhg glucagon, which is considered to exert cardiostimulant effects, most notably the enhancement of heart rate and contractility:
Does glucagon have a positive inotropic effect in the human heart? - Cardiovascular Diabetology
Something does not seem to match what you are experiencing ... which makes me think something else might be up ... what you do might be taking a way to big toll on your already untrained heart.
Glucagon and GLP-1 mostly exert positive chronotropic and inotropic effects on the heart. The heart rate increased with retatrutide treatment in a dose-dependent manner, peaking at 24 weeks, followed by a decline at 36 and 48 weeks; the increases were similar to those reported for GLP-1 receptor agonists.
It basically does the same to your heart as cardio, so the problem again is more likely related to mixing loads of cardio with the med.
Or something else ...
ShredSeason
Well-known Member
ShredSeason
Well-known Member
songsofpyramids
Well-known Member
Tell me about how you tittered your hgh dose (how long, what you started out, how you’re dosing). IMO if you jump up too fast on hgh the water retention can be brutal. You’re also new to trt which can impact water retention too.
songsofpyramids
Well-known Member
I use the app Macro Factor to track calories, macros, and micros, it connects to with my scale and fitness tracker which I like. Only downside is it costs $ a month, but I like it so much more than my fitness pal, I think you’ll learn a lot religiously tracking this stuff.
DanishPanther
New Member
Well I'm not on any peds AT ALL, and I did 3 x RLF with a year of maintance in a row - so no, I can't go a 4rth time of running a 2-3000 kcal deficit a day WITHOUT a GLP-1 Med and possible other assisting compounds, for 6 months or a year or whatever...
My system is broken, I'm obese at this point ... I consider it a medical condition at this point.
Why my post was about meds to suppress hunger and cravings - not how to medicate, out fast and our train - living of the kind of food that made you fat, that you are still eating. - but how to use meds and peds to support keeping yourself on a better diet.
Having too much hunger and unbearable cravings for exactly the type of foods you are eating, made me eventually 60 kg heavier (really 120 kg, because I gained 20kg lost it +40kg lost most of it + 60 kg) ... and I could not out train it... and I was in better shape than you might imagine.
With the vo2max of being a fat person, it's unrealistic to burn 500 kcals an hour, walking as fast as you can if you are around 130 kg will burn 300 kcals an hour. (If you devices tell you other wise, it's because they include the BMR you would already be burning by doing next to nothing).
Obviously when I start my own cut, it will be clean and around 900 kcals, like I did without peds or meds 3 times before... but right now with my current appetite and cravings, that's not realistic without ANY peds or meds.
But you do realize you have to eat clean on all these meds and peds to for it to work?! ... or rather for it to end well .. it might work ... you can live on 1200 kcal gummi bears and lose the fat ... but it will end horrible.
You have to choose man: either you use the meds to diet moderately and you can eat some of that stuff and do loads of cardio, or your diet rapidly and totally different rules apply, not for you not to lose fat for a month, but for work out overall.
As for the amount of training and evaluating your energy balance, it's not me filling myself with ALL the drugs in the cabinet and having entire days fasting without losing weight.
Anyways, enjoy, you are on your own man... good luck with it ... be a jerk about it, I'll still wish you good luck, and not that you will end up both fatter and destroyed internally... but that you do pull it off.
PS: I have ordered both Reta and Triz, I'm quite sure I won't react to reta the way you are.
My system is broken, I'm obese at this point ... I consider it a medical condition at this point.
Why my post was about meds to suppress hunger and cravings - not how to medicate, out fast and our train - living of the kind of food that made you fat, that you are still eating. - but how to use meds and peds to support keeping yourself on a better diet.
Having too much hunger and unbearable cravings for exactly the type of foods you are eating, made me eventually 60 kg heavier (really 120 kg, because I gained 20kg lost it +40kg lost most of it + 60 kg) ... and I could not out train it... and I was in better shape than you might imagine.
With the vo2max of being a fat person, it's unrealistic to burn 500 kcals an hour, walking as fast as you can if you are around 130 kg will burn 300 kcals an hour. (If you devices tell you other wise, it's because they include the BMR you would already be burning by doing next to nothing).
Obviously when I start my own cut, it will be clean and around 900 kcals, like I did without peds or meds 3 times before... but right now with my current appetite and cravings, that's not realistic without ANY peds or meds.
But you do realize you have to eat clean on all these meds and peds to for it to work?! ... or rather for it to end well .. it might work ... you can live on 1200 kcal gummi bears and lose the fat ... but it will end horrible.
You have to choose man: either you use the meds to diet moderately and you can eat some of that stuff and do loads of cardio, or your diet rapidly and totally different rules apply, not for you not to lose fat for a month, but for work out overall.
As for the amount of training and evaluating your energy balance, it's not me filling myself with ALL the drugs in the cabinet and having entire days fasting without losing weight.
Anyways, enjoy, you are on your own man... good luck with it ... be a jerk about it, I'll still wish you good luck, and not that you will end up both fatter and destroyed internally... but that you do pull it off.
PS: I have ordered both Reta and Triz, I'm quite sure I won't react to reta the way you are.
Last edited:
DanishPanther
New Member
Good advice, another is to make up 8-12 recepies he likes, at certain macros, and just keep cycle between them.
One of those approaches are def needed for moderate diets.
If he however pushes Lyles type of diet, just counting protein is enough, because the type of foods you will eat besides that, is limited in kcals, fat and carbs.
Jesus, you can’t stop yourself from making this guy’s thread about you eh.
Dude stop posting. He already told you he doesn’t need your help. Holy crap, go back to your own corner.
DanishPanther
New Member
Thumbs up, over and out
ShredSeason
Well-known Member
Not gonna lie I was stupid as fuck about that, went right to 4IU, no sides except water somehow. Started a week ago after taking a ~month break, I guess it’s obvious whats going on. And I gotta be aromatizing a lot with TRT at my weight.
If labs show my levels are high, should I use an AI to get them under control, or try something else first?
I am not on a diet, just eating around my maintenance and my weight fluctuates +/- 5 lbs. It depends on my carb intake, water retention due to sodium levels or simply if I eat at night or have a good bowel movement.
Take measurements of the vital areas, your abdomen by the navel, chest and thighs. Include weekly/monthly pictures and you will have a better gauge on progress rather than basing it through the scale. Sure the scale will give you tangible numbers but it will not display change in body composition such as muscle gain or glycogen stores after carb ups.
You will get better in knowing how it feels to be bloated, retaining water or if you’re gaining fat after you have been at it for a while.
BoloYang2023
Member
hey broski its time to stop. Just reset i know everyone here is saying it and I know damn well your reading them all and being like FUCK that! bro. I do a hour of cardio a day to see a lb drop a week lmfao and im in a a 400 cal deficit could i drop even more and lose even more fasterYEs i know i can drop like 2-3 lbs a week but my mental state will be fucked because id be traing on minimal to ZERO complex carbs and ZERO sugars. like besides super low glycemic index carbs such as veggies which IS DOG SHIT for carbs lol. ALL of us here want to see you succeed youve been killing it. We are saying to reset to give your metabolism time to reset. Just lets say go to eating 2k cals which is average for a month. Drop all drugs and just do caffiene to keep any crazy hunger down if your getting those. Dude there are tons of healthy choices to eat. And i think with the amount of people here in this forum willing to help you and watch you win if you was to ask for a tiny guidance someone would help you. Shit they got actual macro calculators out there now alot of nutritionist (ME) and coaches use. YEs i got my CNC and CPT certs but still even for me i learn more and more stuff daily. like form correction resetting diet after times. like going from a hard bulk direct to cut for some is stupid af its better to go to Maintenace then hit the cut hard. BUT BUT i do believe true body recomps are dumb you can gain way better with just hard bulks and hard cuts.
BoloYang2023
Member
So going right to 4IU of HGH is not smart imo everyone knows start low and slow. Please Ask people here shred no one wants you to not succeed @ShredSeason
ShredSeason
Well-known Member
Thanks man! I’m noticing the difference in the mirror, shirts are fitting a lot better, I guess that’s what matters. Taking care of my hypertension with telmisartan and getting my estrogen under control should help a lot. I’m drastically decreasing carbs too.
Was texting my mom earlier, she has a body tape measure, she’s gonna drop it off tonight. Glad you told me where to measure.
ShredSeason
Well-known Member
Not liking the idea of crashing my test again. Is a hard reset like this really necessary when the only problem I’m having is the scale’s number? I could see doing this if I was in some sort of health emergency, but things are good. I have good momentum built up with my exercising, my clothes are fitting a lot better, and I can see it too. I know the fat’s coming off quick.
BoloYang2023
Member
ok lets do blood work first then review k? I mean full panel everything from kidney values to SHBG to Lipids To the whole damn shabang and post here and we will all guide you with the best knowledge we have. taking off trt isnt what is needed trt is great cause test helps but if your lvls arent in the right range then its not really helpful ya know?
songsofpyramids
Well-known Member
Were you doing 4iu before your break ok or were you having issues with water? I’d drop dose pretty hard, down to like 2iu first thing am, then rise up .4-.5iu a week till you get back to dose. That should knock out the water retention.
For fat loss you might want to just blast it all as one bolus in the am. Personally, I get the best feels split dose 2iu 2iu, but I’m in the midst of transitioning out of a cut into a growth phase.
I’m not an expert on the ai question (I don’t do aas), but I definitely think that’s worth fishing around to the experienced members for an answer because you will definitely have more issues aromatizing at your weight.
songsofpyramids
Well-known Member
Again, I’m no expert in aas so take others opinions more than mine, but I def don’t think you should pct at the moment for a hard reset. Dropping dose to a trt dose might be helpful on the sides and help you find a baseline easier.
This sounds like sage advice.
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