The DNP Retatrutide Extreme Fat Loss Cycle

[ShredSeason]

- I have been a coach

Impressive progress @BCBuilder but you’re leaving gains on the table not hiring this guy

 

[songsofpyramids]

Thanks! I’ll keep it around 2 hours from now on, been wondering about that.

Type-IX wrote up a great hgh fat loss protocol on here, and there are some good laymen explanations for the non scientists among us in there. He had links to science showing that to be prime burn time. I’ll dig it up tmrw and link it.

As for more than 24 hour fasts I think it’s wise to return to that once you’ve dialed everything in. I’m a big fan of two day fasts but think it can be hard on the body and it might be best to wait until you have everything, especially the hormones and nutrition, locked in.

 

[ShredSeason]

Type-IX wrote up a great hgh fat loss protocol on here, and there are some good laymen explanations for the non scientists among us in there. He had links to science showing that to be prime burn time. I’ll dig it up tmrw and link it.

As for more than 24 hour fasts I think it’s wise to return to that once you’ve dialed everything in. I’m a big fan of two day fasts but think it can be hard on the body and it might be best to wait until you have everything, especially the hormones and nutrition, locked in.

I spent a lot of time staring at that post. Do you like subq or IM more? I’ve only done subq, couldn’t figure out which one he was promoting in that post.

Yeah that’s a good point, gotta have my hormones and other meds dialed in. Next step is finding out how much I’m aromatizing and deciding what I want to do about that, normalizing to telmisartan, and decreasing the load on my heart. If I can take good care of my heart and blood pressure, I think my body will be game to attack this fat safely.

 

[songsofpyramids]

I spent a lot of time staring at that post. Do you like subq or IM more? I’ve only done subq, couldn’t figure out which one he was promoting in that post.

He’s specifically talking about subq in that post. I just do subq myself,

How are you feeling now on your current regime of meds?

 

[ShredSeason]

He’s specifically talking about subq in that post. I just do subq myself,

How are you feeling now on your current regime of meds?

Test and GH: great
Reta is becoming a problem at 6 mg, insomnia and putting too much strain on my heart, even after cutting out caffeine. I have Sema coming in the next couple days, thinking of dropping my Reta dose down and adding a tiny amount of Sema. That’ll decrease heart load a lot, I can’t handle Reta’s stim effects at higher dosages with my ADD meds at this weight. I feel stimmed the fuck out, and that’s after cutting my ADD dose down by 40%.
Still haven’t started Telmisartan, that new cuff is giving error readings on my machine. Gonna figure that out tomorrow.

 

[ShredSeason]

Day 27 (Sunday) chest, triceps, shoulders

Fasted morning workout
45 min indoor bike, 15 minute walk
Bench 6x3-8, Cable flies total gym 5x15, Seated barbell ohp 3x3, Barbell skull crushers 3x3, 2x10, Barbell shrugs 2x12

Food 800-1000 calories
My meal today was a delicious chicken shawarma wrap. Lot of garlic butter on the inside, felt like a waste of calories, should have ordered it light on the garlic and extra chicken

Late night “fasted” light cardio
20 minutes indoor bike, 10 minute walk. 6 hours after I ate, but reta had that sandwich parked in my stomach.

Total calories burned for the day was around 1600
Net calories approx -700

 

[ShredSeason]

@ShredSeason hope your killing your progress for the week dont do anything crazy lmfao

Lmao thanks bro the T3 T4 is tempting but I’m holding off until I get my blood pressure and heart in good order.

 

[BoloYang2023]

hmm, ive been thinking of reviewing some of my old studies from college about nutrition and how important micronutrients are for the immune system just to post them here for you. Because I am concerned about your Micronutrients, as they are very rarely even discussed but impact your overall HEALTH immensely. Ill bust open some of those old books and look for my old papers. This is why i do greens and reds every day. But, i believe you said you do greens correct? And I would of def opted for extra chicken said tiny bit of garlic and like double extra chicken as you could of still met your calorie marker with way way more protein. I know you feel satiated from the drugs but when your off and eating right without drugs remember always choose Proteins over fats especially non healthy fats, but glad your killing it i bike now every am fasted for 30 minutes like i said then on work days i do cardio at the gym after my workout for 30 minutes as well stepmill so a total of 1 hr of cadio daily

 

[phenominal34]

Well thank you for a mostly positive post ... I appreciate most you are saying here, man.

But listen, it's you who frames it all like I'm whining, it's so funny to me because I have never whined in my entire life, not even a single time felt sorry for myself.

I'm looking for medical solutions, not pity. (That's also why I hate even having to tell these things to anyone in here, it's none of others' business).

It's when you guys say: "Why are you asking about GLP-1, you don't need that, just man up and do it without any peds", that I'm just trying to explain the mechanisms behind my situation to guys like you, who assume way, way, way too much man.

You call it excuses but it's just the facts...

As for my situation, that's again so easy to suggest:
If I cut off my mother she is dead within a week, and I'm very close to her, so that's not going to be the choice I'll ever make... and sure all psychologists are telling me I need to keep no contact with both my mom and daughter, that I can't save them if I die myself anyways so that I should just let them go and live my life - but that's never going to be the choice I'll make ... it's not a war I'm giving up on... and neither is getting back in shape, rebuilding my business, or getting my wife back - I'll rather die trying, and that's not a metaphor.

My wife is lovely, she just followed the advice of her therapists and psychologists.

The situation is what it is, and I can deal with it (lol, well I'll laugh writing that - but let's just say I will keep trying to deal with it)... but it's still affecting me biologically: it's traumatic and stressful nonetheless, and my biology is messed up and thinks it can cure it by forcing me to eat all kind of crap - when in fact, right now, the opposite is needed.

That's not whining either, that's just explaining how I experience it.

As for the weight, you have to realize that I went from 86kg to 98kg (did rfl + a year of maintance) 108 kg(did rfl + a year of maintance), to 118 kg(did rfl + a year of maintance), to 128 kg to 142 kg(I'm standing here now), each jump happened within months not years after I could no longer maintain maintenance.

Also, you are not realising the built-up fatigue for being at it so hard, for so long: once is easy, twice is okay ... but over time this thing gets HARD dude. The physical and psychological excess gets allot smaller over time.

I have gone from being able to train 5 hours a day (sometimes did), to having a struggle just going down the stairs and shopping my groceries: I do walk every day, but condition is not improving, just getting worse and worse, and each time it feels like my heart is about to stop and my lungs fall out.

So realistically I just don't have another round of living 6 months on 600 kcals in me, without these meds being used to support me in doing so simultaneously.

You can call me concluding that being an excuse, but I would call the opposite lack of feel for one's own limitations or realism. When I was 108 kg only having run RFL once, nothing would have been easier to tell the same to one at 140 kg, but it's a totally different situation.

Btw. I have never had problems with accountability - I have been a coach and had coaches before ... I wouldn't care about failing a coach, but I hate to fail myself.

The plan is very simple man:
1) I have to keep battling not gaining more weight for right now.
2) As soon as I have the GLP-1 meds, I need to start the RFL again, possibly staying on a maintenance dose of GLP-1 meds for life.
3) I'll add whatever is safe and cheap, that supports that goal, makes me less fatigued, improve

But I rather speak about that in my own thread than derail Shreddeds, he does not deserve us craping in his thread.

Anyways, mostly thank you for that post man.
And you very well know it was different from the rest you wrote.

Cmon man, stop posting. You’re ruining this man’s log !!! Have some respect and just don’t reply

 

[ShredSeason]

hmm, ive been thinking of reviewing some of my old studies from college about nutrition and how important micronutrients are for the immune system just to post them here for you. Because I am concerned about your Micronutrients, as they are very rarely even discussed but impact your overall HEALTH immensely. Ill bust open some of those old books and look for my old papers. This is why i do greens and reds every day. But, i believe you said you do greens correct? And I would of def opted for extra chicken said tiny bit of garlic and like double extra chicken as you could of still met your calorie marker with way way more protein. I know you feel satiated from the drugs but when your off and eating right without drugs remember always choose Proteins over fats especially non healthy fats, but glad your killing it i bike now every am fasted for 30 minutes like i said then on work days i do cardio at the gym after my workout for 30 minutes as well stepmill so a total of 1 hr of cadio daily

I appreciate that, thank you!! Micros I got going right now are multi, vitamin D, zinc elderberry chew, potassium, magnesium, pinch of Real Salt, vitamin c, and chromium. Never heard of this reds and greens stuff, looks awesome! Just bought some, it’ll be here Wednesday. I hope this is what you were talking about lmao. I got some vitamin k2 also.

That’s awesome, stepmill sounds brutal. I love the bike because I can just fuck around on my phone. Not doing one thing outside right now, fucking -3f this morning.

 

[ShredSeason]

Day 28 sw 338 cw 323.5
This is really starting to get to me. 0 pounds lost in the last 2 weeks. Last week I gained 2 pounds overnight after a 24 hour fast, up 2 pounds in the last 2 days. I shouldn’t have to eat 400 mg of DNP to drop pounds on the scale. I just don’t understand what’s going on. Could water retention really be outpacing this steep of a deficit?? I’m squeezing the fuck out of my skin by my thumb, and it pops back right away, so I just don’t know what to think.

23 days severe deficit/zero food, 4 days moderate deficit, 1 day mantainence, working out, it doesn’t add up. I even talked to someone in my family, they said they see a difference in me since I started working out. I do too, which is wild, because I never notice. No difference on the scale though. Maybe I’m finally starting to aromatize a fuck load from TRT, my nips are fine though. I gotta figure this out. I basically only lost weight on my 400 mg DNP week, something’s fucked.

 

[readalot]

23 days severe deficit/zero food, 4 days moderate deficit, 1 day mantainence, working out, it doesn’t add up.

Destroyed your metabolism. Your body sending you a message. STOP.

Reset. Drop the drugs. Go back to maintenance and step off this destructive path.

Restart with reasonable 10 to 20% kcal debit and set a realistic goal of 1.5 to 2 lb of mass loss per week. Slow and consistent is the approach to take.

No reason at all for you to be starving yourself. 1 step forward / 2 steps back.

Sorry I am not going back and reading all this. Do you know what your maintenance kcals were before starting all this?

 

[trtbuilder]

Destroyed your metabolism. Your body sending you a message. STOP.

Reset. Drop the drugs. Go back to maintenance and step off this destructive path.

Restart with reasonable 10 to 20% kcal debit and set a realistic goal of 1.5 to 2 lb of mass loss per week. Slow and consistent is the approach to take.

No reason at all for you to be starving yourself. 1 step forward / 2 steps back.

Sorry I am not going back and reading all this. Do you know what your maintenance kcals were before starting all this?

Worked fine for me. Ate 1000-1500 calories for 6 months and lost 50 pounds. Started lifting again hardcore after. A year later and my metabolism is faster than it's ever been.

 

[Musmadar]

Day 28 sw 338 cw 323.5
This is really starting to get to me. 0 pounds lost in the last 2 weeks. Last week I gained 2 pounds overnight after a 24 hour fast, up 2 pounds in the last 2 days. I shouldn’t have to eat 400 mg of DNP to drop pounds on the scale. I just don’t understand what’s going on. Could water retention really be outpacing this steep of a deficit?? I’m squeezing the fuck out of my skin by my thumb, and it pops back right away, so I just don’t know what to think.

23 days severe deficit/zero food, 4 days moderate deficit, 1 day mantainence, working out, it doesn’t add up. I even talked to someone in my family, they said they see a difference in me since I started working out. I do too, which is wild, because I never notice. No difference on the scale though. Maybe I’m finally starting to aromatize a fuck load from TRT, my nips are fine though. I gotta figure this out. I basically only lost weight on my 400 mg DNP week, something’s fucked.

It's all a matter of carbs, at this point: even with small amount ingested, all of your body cells will suck and preserve all of it.
You have to convince your body to start changing the source of fuel from carbs to fats....it could take days or 1-2 weeks...you will get the "keto-flu" in the meantime....
It's all about the carbs.

 

[readalot]

Worked fine for me. Ate 1000-1500 calories for 6 months and lost 50 pounds. Started lifting again hardcore after. A year later and my metabolism is faster than it's ever been.

Compare with first post....

One 600-800 calorie meal each day

Would also need to know maintenance kcals for both. Pretty clear OP's body in starvation mode or not tracking kcals properly.


@ShredSeason what is for mean daily kcal intake over last 2 weeks? Do you know? Min, max?

Post your food log for last 28 days. Macro breakdown?

 

[trtbuilder]

Yeah I agree he could up a bit

 

[ShredSeason]

Would also need to know maintenance kcals for both. Pretty clear OP's body in starvation mode or not tracking kcals properly.

It’s easy to track kcals of a 48-hour fast, I gained 2.5-3 lbs during that time. There’s obviously something massive going on beyond metabolism. Most of the other days were OMAD, easy to track one meal. I don’t drink calories, no dressing, sweets, or any other bullshit, just dinner.

Let’s give my kcals a +50% margin of error and say my 800 calorie meals were actually 1200. My TDEE is 3000, over 4000 this week, so 1200 calories is still a massive deficit.

 

[readalot]

It’s easy to track kcals of a 48-hour fast, I gained 2.5-3 lbs during that time. There’s obviously something massive going on beyond metabolism. Most of the other days were OMAD, easy to track one meal. I don’t drink calories, no dressing, sweets, or any other bullshit, just dinner.

Let’s give my kcals a +50% margin of error and say my 800 calorie meals were actually 1200. My TDEE is 3000, over 4000 this week, so 1200 calories is still a massive deficit.

See my comments above.

 

[ShredSeason]

Post your food log for last 28 days. Macro breakdown?

I don’t this have this information man, sadly. A lot of days I just look up/figure out how many calories my one meal is, at most I write it down on the log and that's it. I’m just now starting to log in MyFitnessPal. Unfortunately don’t have macro splits, heavy on carbs, working on fixing that.

 

[DanishPanther]

EDIT: IMPORTANT: obviously not losing while fasting does not have to do with your metabolism It takes a shitload of kcal to keep you alive and you are not dead ...

It's most likely to be water weight (look into the Whoosh Effect) ... or food in transition - remember big part of the food you eat are often burned or converted to fat "a long" time after you eat them.

You will probably lose the actual weight from fasting over the days after the fast ...


Few random thoughts mate:

1) You can't truly expect to be burning 1700 kcals on training, esp not in a kcal defit ... in your shape it will probably be a max of 300 kcal an hour, extra (if you are fully at instense cardio all the time without breaks!)... also as you describe things you are certain to underestimate your kcal intake ... durum like the one you talk about could easily be 1600-1800 kcals ...

You have to meal prep, make some lean protein, some vegs, and keep some fruits around for cravings (and remember the fishoil, 10 grams a day of typical ones is not to much in your situation, or 5-6 grams of the better ones).

You need to get your eating under actual control here.
This should be the main goal of using a GLP-1
Preb, a shitload of lean protein, vegs, and some fruits available.

Perhaps keep the kcal intake higher, till you can titrate the Reta to 8mcg or whatever it takes to make it a hell of alot easier.

Don't fast, when your diet is already a protein fast ... you alreay gets the benifits of a fast at this kcal deficit, execpt the loss of muscle mass ... (that goes as soon as you get below 900 kcals, at 150-200 grams of protein).

Hate to say this: but if you really want to lose rapidly, cut the cardio, lower the training volume, and eat at as big a deficit as possible (on around 150-200 grams of protein a day) ... getting in shape will be allot easier in the phase after ... now DO keep walking and do keep doing LOW intense cardio.

You have to realise the effect of this big deficit on recovery and rebuilding processes ... even when pro bodybuilders use the ENTIRE horrific medicine cabinet, they are not able to build a gram of muscle while cutting this hard.

On the other hand, keeping the mass you already have, does not take much (given how little mass you have already) ... so make sure to plan and time the peds you use, as to how it's smart to do so.

Consider if you can't read the more important part of the book I bought for you, that is in your pm for you.

2) I get worried about some of the supplements, notice you are in a situation where your kidneys need to do a lot of work losing all this fat - normally not a problem at all, even at 3000 kcal deficit for months - but adding all these subs together with all the meds ... well do you have any possibility to get your kidneys measured as you go along?

It's like using PCT while you are on steroids (not smart), you need to split it into phases, instead of trying to do everything at once ... keep breaks where you take on repairing subs etc.

3) Reta does not give you energy by stimulating beta-2 adrenergic receptors, but trouth the glucagon receptor: coffee and such is a total different pathways, so should not effect each other ... it could be a hint something else than the Reta is going on here ...

Most need to reach 8mcg for it to supress appetite effectively ... it's very few that has heart experiences on 8mcg if they titrate to 8mcg, it's mostly some being concerned about a resting pulse of 50 and such ... and like a very little risk of heart problems (happens in 1-2 subjects out of all of them) ... would be good to figure out what is actually going on ... it's very likely to be related to all your training, or dnp while eating like this ... can simply be to big a burden for your heart to handle it.

Whatever Reta does to your heart, it's trough Glucagon actions, not by stimulating the beta2-adrenergic receptors in your throat ... so unlike DNP etc. it should be unrelated to coffee and such intake ...

Reta works the energy sustems trouhg glucagon, which is considered to exert cardiostimulant effects, most notably the enhancement of heart rate and contractility:
Does glucagon have a positive inotropic effect in the human heart? - Cardiovascular Diabetology

Something does not seem to match what you are experiencing ... which makes me think something else might be up ... what you do might be taking a way to big toll on your already untrained heart.

Glucagon and GLP-1 mostly exert positive chronotropic and inotropic effects on the heart. The heart rate increased with retatrutide treatment in a dose-dependent manner, peaking at 24 weeks, followed by a decline at 36 and 48 weeks; the increases were similar to those reported for GLP-1 receptor agonists.

It basically does the same to your heart as cardio, so the problem again is more likely related to mixing loads of cardio with the med.

Or something else ...